Some families have two mums or have two dads or even a daddy and two mummies…
There are countless iterations of what different families look like today. Some Families, the UK’s first LGBTQ+ parenting podcast series, will break down queer parenting myths and answer questions for those thinking about parenthood. Hosts Lotte Jeffs and Stu Oakley will be sharing their own experiences as queer parents and chatting to a plethora of guests.
Full transcription below.
Stu Oakley : Some families have two moms. Some families have two dads and some families have a daddy and two mommies. There
Lotte Jeffs: are countless iterations of what different families look like today.
Stu Oakley: Some families, we’re a brand new podcast, every type of LGBTQ plus family, we’re going to answer questions. We’re going to break down myths. We’re going to share funny, emotional and also true stories from our community. And hopefully that is going to resonate with everybody listening.
Lotte Jeffs: I’m Lottie, Jeff’s an author, journalist and reformed magazine editor and a mom of one
Stu Oakley: and I’m Sue Oakley, a film publicist who thought I was used to dealing with divas until I have toddlers. Here’s a sneak peek of what is coming up this series.
Riyadh Khalifa:
It actually comes up in conversation more times than you might believe. And I don’t know which one is right for me. Yes. I had a very different view to him up until recently, I was all about biological babies. And I think I’m willing to kind of throw that away because I think I’d be a really, really, really good to us. And when I think about it, I get a warm feeling in my body, I don’t have what I did have, which is panic, and that has come from finding a partner who I think could be a dad with me and be an amazing loving
Niall:
father. Adoption was the only the only means that we looked into becoming parents you know, you have to want it enough that you’re going to change your life Christian and what any child throws your life upside down and adopt a child. We’re literally flip it. I can’t imagine life without them. Wouldn’t want life without them. So actually, there isn’t anything else before this is it? This is what I have. This is why
Holly:
I just knew I wanted to become a parent one day, and the older I got further away I came from finding my missus right. And I thought right, it’s time to take the bull by the horns and go down this path on my own
Two Dads:
picture. popped up. We’re looking at the screen pregnancy test. And it was a positive one. Yeah. So we knew we were one of the lucky ones that particular time. But yeah, IVF it gruelling, and you don’t realise how challenging it is, until you’re in with that trying to conceive community, once you lift the lid on it, the close groups, the networks and the friends that we’ve developed and the relationships you’ve made within the TTC community. Massive, you know, the more people talk
Jen Brister:
about it normally is, the more normal it is, the less homophobia, the Beingness, homophobia, the you know, the better quality of life our children have been and will have as a family. reason I wrote my book is because there was nothing there was nothing at all. There was a fact that there was about what I was going through. We need visibility, we need as much visibility as possible. We need to create a support network and he’s creating a group where people can feel they can tap into something and go, Oh, these people are going through exactly what I’m going through with which is that what is already in all seems it’s couples have family These
Launa:
kids are going to be asking are these kids got two moms it’s difficult to dad’s one mom one dad you know and they all get will want to know what’s happening and I think for other parents to be informed the end the day with just a family getting through stuff like every other family out there, but we’ve got a mommy a mama boy ago and again
Lotte Jeffs: welcome to some families, the LGBTQ plus parenting podcast for anyone who is thinking about starting a family has a family or thinks maybe possibly one day in the future they might like to consider it. We will be answering all of your questions talking to loads of amazing guests and sharing some of our stories. Stu Hello, amazing, fabulous co host and low. Yes,
Stu Oakley: very excited, very excited to be going on this queer parenting journey. journey. It is a journey.
Lotte Jeffs: Is though
Stu Oakley: and there’s a lot of things and a lot of bumps along the road and and there’s like fun along rides in
Lotte Jeffs: the back shouting are nearly there
Stu Oakley: was projectile vomiting. Yeah. Don’t let that put you off. It’s also lots of fun times and lots of magical times and lots of beautiful times.
Lotte Jeffs: Yes. Who is she? Who was she and Who does she want?
Stu Oakley: A very loaded question very loaded, but I am I am Stuart Lee and I am a film publicist by day and by night I am a gay father of two.
And by like, morning, morning,
Stu Oakley: every moment in between. But yeah, I’m a father too. And my husband and I adopted and they’re beautiful and I love them and I will put up with that projectile vomiting in the back of the car.
Lotte Jeffs: When did you adopt?
Stu Oakley: We adopted it was a year and a half ago But hang on one second before We get into me Lottie, I want to briefly know about you as well,
Lotte Jeffs: you know what I’m like, you know, I know never about me, I always
Stu Oakley: know but Lottie tell us. Okay, were you. Before we get into me, I hear you and what is your story?
Lotte Jeffs: So my name is Lottie and I am the other mother to a beautiful baby girl. She’s a toddler. She is amazing. She’s so wildly intelligent and curious and just blows my mind every single day and my wife got pregnant via our UI, which we’ll talk loads more about in future episodes. We’re one of the really, really lucky ones in that it worked for us and it worked like really straightforwardly and first time and feels like such a blessing and a privilege and I know so many other people don’t have such a easy time of it. So I’m just everyday like so thankful
Stu Oakley: more some families in a moment stick around and with
Stu Oakley: so now we’re actually talking about you look,
Lotte Jeffs: we always funny how that funny turn. Yeah. Should we go back to you? That’s
Stu Oakley: what we’re trying to say. Well, maybe maybe if you want to put it on me. Yeah,
Lotte Jeffs: let’s let’s put it on you. So you’re an adopted adoptive dad adopted adoptee Yes,
Stu Oakley: we adopted in June 2018. When our daughter and our son moved in with us
Lotte Jeffs: and how old were they at the time,
Stu Oakley: the daughter was two and a half and our son was six months. Wow. Six. Within the days he was seven months. And it was just it was just wonderful. And we’d obviously been on a journey before then as well to get them to that stage. But having them move in with us and having that first day
Lotte Jeffs: what was that first day like like putting them to bed that night and knowing that in the Morning they’d be there there
Stu Oakley: is a there’s a process that goes with adoption and one of the processes that they put into place, which I think is brilliant and the way that it’s managed, and it’s different for every family. And, you know, disclaimer, everything we talked about on our podcast is, everything is different for every single family. Every family is unique. You know, you can be a gay couple with two kids by adoption and your journey could be completely different. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, Angelina Jolie and I are, you know, very similar in many.
Lotte Jeffs: I mean, it’s not the only thing you have in common,
Stu Oakley: but you know, excellent taste in men. Exactly. Exactly.
Stu Oakley: God, I love you, john. But yeah, Brad, Brad. Okay, but we’ll move on from that. So thinking about brighter
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, now you’re talking about the process
Stu Oakley: to the process, just taking one step back to when they moved in. You go through a whole process of once you’ve been matched with the children and you’ve got to know them from afar. There is a period of time before they move in with you where you almost insert yourself into their lives in their foster home slowly. Mm hmm. So we spent a foolish 10 days I think in total, where we met them on the first day. And we spent an hour and a half with them. And then we went away. And the next day we spent a little bit longer and a little bit longer and a little bit longer. So by the 10th day, we were there at 6am getting them up in the morning, we were the first things they saw, and then we were there the day putting them to bed. So for them the continuity was we were by the end of it, we were with them.
Lotte Jeffs: And I suppose at that young age, they have so little sense of time and how much time has passed. I can imagine that young age that really works and like you’re just them primary caregivers.
Stu Oakley: And then before that stage, we then prepare introductory materials, which is we have to create and I’m sure there’s a lot of adoptive parents around To this the cheesiest video you’ve ever seen, because it had to be suitable for a two and a half year old
Lotte Jeffs: Oh cute
Stu Oakley: on even though he was only six months it would be about listening to the sounds and our voices and, and whatnot. But it was basically my husband and I doing this play school style video where my dad and I are watching Peppa Pig
Lotte Jeffs: Peppa Pig with us and and we’re playing in this pit. Now, come and play in the sandpit with us too. And please, like me while you’re watching, like Who are these giant babies?
Stu Oakley: But it didn’t it worked and it was beautiful. They the foster parents were amazing. And they showed that video so they only do it within a week period as well because like you were saying for time, in a sense of little ones mind. They don’t want to tell them too soon because Then I like where our dad and daddy they’re not showing up. So they condense. It’s just a week before we arrived, and they show them that video and pictures and images as much as they can. Our daughter literally knew that video of my heart when we watched it with her when we were with her. She knew every single bit that was coming next and every She’s so sweet. So therefore, when we knocked on the door, she went dad, Daddy, oh my god, that must have been straight away and my heart walking up to that door and walking up the path. I thought I was going to be physically sick. I’ve never felt finally it was the weird was it nerve.
Stu Oakley: So I think I mean, I think he’s that is extreme nerves. You’re about to meet your children the first time and they’re not a cute little baby in a bundle. They are, you know, a two year old living being and you’re walking into someone else’s house and you’re in a completely strange and alien environment and I it was one of it is it was one of the worst feelings I’ve ever had for the shared feeling. So second, oh my god. But then the moment that door opened and her little face was there smiling, honestly, I thought for me was one of the best. And that’s the thing that people need to take is that, that those moments that are just pure magic? Yeah,
Lotte Jeffs: I can imagine for some people, maybe it said, as we were saying, like it’s a different process. And maybe you don’t feel that instant, like overwhelming joy is more complicated. You
Stu Oakley: have to be prepared for that. And you need to be prepared for that, that you don’t necessarily and it’s okay not to love them straight away. It’s a very strange process because you think there’s a child in front of you, you need to love them right away. But it’s okay. If you don’t, you know, you’ve got to get to know each other and you’ve got to go on this journey
Lotte Jeffs: together. Same with even a lot of what a lot Birth mothers having saving birth to their baby, there’s this pressure that you’re supposed to kind of feel this overwhelming love towards this thing that you don’t know and love kind of doesn’t really work like that you love something more, the more you get to know it and the more time you spend with it, so
Stu Oakley: love it more. And you know, I will say though, that when we met our daughter and son, I did love them straight away. I absolutely amazing one that I think is amazing. And I think I was so prepared that that wasn’t gonna happen that that kind of took me by surprise in a wonderful way. And that was one of the hard it was one of the most beautiful weeks of my life but it was also one of the most hard
Lotte Jeffs: did you stay like with the foster family? We stayed locally, we stayed in
Stu Oakley: a budget chain hotel which are designed to stay in more than one or two nights and we were there 10 nights and I must have been such an intense and strange it was 10 days. It was it was so weird. We were in a complete I just finished work. Yeah, so that alone as anybody will know, when they’ve been on parental leave of any kind it’s we’re taking a step back from a job especially when you’re so it’s such a huge part of who you are dealing with that we were in a completely strange environment when nobody we knew in a in a strange budget hotel
Stu Oakley: and I’m not sound like a snob
Stu Oakley: I just add surreal. Yeah, it’s just a weird, weird time. So you’re in this incredibly strange, but then all you’ve got is the fact that you’ve got these kids but then you start and I’m the most impatient person I just wanted to get them home. You know those days spending about two three hours with them in the middle of the day and then going, you just can’t wait to see them. You can’t wait to see them again. You’re thinking about the thing. That’s what I’m doing and you want updates on what they’re doing. It’s kind of like that.
Lotte Jeffs: And so I just want to understand like once you did get, get them home, like that first night when you put them to bed in your house and you got into bed with your husband, you’re in bed together and your kids Sleep in the room next door. What did you feel like that’s that makes almost like makes the hairs on the back of my arm like stand up just thinking about how amazing that must have been.
Stu Oakley: I think we put them into bed and we went downstairs and it was a know what happened. And I think what was so weird about it. And john and I’ve talked a lot about this to people is it felt so normal. It was weird. You dropped right into the middle of parenting experience. Oh yeah, you’re not there like people that who have babies that they adopt when they’re newborn or have that newborn experience it like eases you into the moment. I think sometimes that’s why adoptive parents some I think we have a perhaps the wrong word but kind of like the so much training we go through as adoptive parents, like we go through training sessions. We have training groups, we go on training seminars we have books with we we have to prove that we’ve read parenting books and done certain things straight and and couples who’ve had our UI donor conception, births and surrogacy don’t have that. And they’re just handed a baby and go back on. See you later. Yeah. So and that’s what I mean when I say we have I kind of different entrance into it.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah. And I think that’s the thing with your situation is you just do it because you don’t have a choice.
Stu Oakley: Yeah, so yeah, that’s absolutely right. You just you just crack on and just do it and is a wonderful thing. And you know, this is the start of our some family’s journey and we will talk a lot about it and we will talk a lot to other people.
Lotte Jeffs: That I have so many more questions I want to ask you and I’m sure our listeners have loads your questions to like literally, how does it work and also in an emotional sensing Are you feeling how did the kids feel like this, so much? Get into
Stu Oakley: Pandora’s box, we will be getting into it. Well, I keep listening we well, the one thing I will say because it’s a lot of is one of the key questions that comes up is, it was really quick for us, but not in a super quick way you took a year from the moment where we first walked into the adoption agency to register interested when actually they moved it. And weirdly, it was to the day of the year, which is really freaky, and really weird. But I just wanted to say that because also I think that’s something a lot of people who are on their journey. Question is, that is almost one of those myths, one of the many hopefully will breaking down about all different types of ways to become queer parents, but it doesn’t everyone’s adoption tax long. It doesn’t. It really doesn’t. It takes the right amount of time to prepare you and get you ready for it. And it can take time if you can’t find the right children that are for you. But it can also be fairly swift as well.
Lotte Jeffs: So I guess if you’re seriously thinking about it, you need a new start the process. You can’t start it thinking, Oh, we will just start it and then maybe they’ll be ready for it.
Stu Oakley: Yeah, it goes and it goes through. There are moments where it’s happening really, really, really, really fast. You’re like,
Stu Oakley: Well, again, you look
Stu Oakley: what’s happening. And then there’s moments where it suddenly is like, hang on. We haven’t had anything weeks. This is taking forever what’s going on. But it did take us a year day to day from the day of interest to the day when they moved in, which I think is pretty swift in my eye. Amazing.
Lotte Jeffs: I can’t wait to hear more.
Stu Oakley: Well, I will give more and like I said, any questions anybody has here to answer But enough about me.
Lotte Jeffs: I thought I swiftly moved on.
Stu Oakley: All right, here we go. allottees time, right. So tell me naughty you’re a mom, one. Boring. How did you and your wife get to the point of deciding you even wanted a child?
Lotte Jeffs: So I think I have always wanted kids. It’s something I’ve known since I was a kid somehow I’ve made because I’m an early child. I’ve kind of always thought it would be fun to have brothers or sisters or I’ve always just loved children I’ve loved like having younger children in my life growing up. And I think I’ve always been super confident that I want kids. I’ve never been quite sure how that would happen. I wasn’t convinced that I wanted to actually carry a child myself or physically give birth.
Stu Oakley: Like, how was that conversation then when you so
Lotte Jeffs: that conversation so just to backtrack, I guess the first conversation was like, after three months of dating, my now wife was me saying, you know, I really want kids one day and we were at that stage in our relationship when I think we were both 2827 when we first met, so it was kind of that age where it’s like, Look, is this is this it? Because if this isn’t it like I don’t even have time to mess around before you become a geriatric Exactly. So god awful,
Lotte Jeffs: isn’t it? Yeah. And my wife, my now wife was always super honest with me and with like, it’s not something that I’ve ever thought about necessarily. It’s kind of something that I abstractly think that I’ll probably have one day. But I don’t feel the same urge to start a family in the very foreseeable future is you, but I’m really open minded to it. So that was the start of our conversation was me saying, I really want kids. my now wife saying, I don’t not want kids. And that was kind of another place to be right. Yeah, I was like, I’ve got this. Yeah, sure.
Stu Oakley: We’re 28 Yeah, better time.
Lotte Jeffs: Exactly. So that was and then I guess over the years, the conversation just evolved and, you know, be something we talked about, like we’d be having a really nice dinner or be on holiday together and had a few glass of wine and it would be like, wouldn’t it be amazing to have a family and like Every time we had the conversation, it sort of had evolved a little bit more. And then we got married. And then it was like, let’s do it. Let’s just do it. And I think my wife by that point had kind of we’ve spoken about it so much. And we’ve kind of I mean, we spoken about it so much and had to
Stu Oakley: do and had you spoken about the how.
Lotte Jeffs: So we’ve spoken about the Yeah, we definitely want it and then the How was the next conversation and that was, in the end came down really to work? I guess I was. I was the deputy editor of L at the time, and I was applying to be the editor in chief. And it felt like a really big job, whereas my wife was in a job where she was thinking about leaving her full time position anyway and going freelance and it felt like if I could be the one that had the big job, and she was going freelance, she could work, freelance and have a baby and she He was up for it. She was, she was actually really awkward in the end. So, but was there a moment in time where you thought, God, I would really like to be the one to carry that you’ve never had?
Lotte Jeffs: Like, yes, you have the baby. That’s cool. Let me experience what it’s like. And I think maybe just my gender identity or my sense of myself, I was just really, and maybe actually because I knew how much I loved kids. I just knew I’d be really good at being the other mother. I just knew that I would fall in love with my daughter straight away, even if she hadn’t come out of me physically. So then the next conversation for lesbian potential parents is he’s the daddy. Like how the hell are we going to do this? Because no amount of, you know, doing what every lesbians do. You know who knows? To yes to will Make it happen. So we started to think and we were so obsessed with like thinking of what the right thing to do was and what the best thing to do for this hypothetical unborn child would be. And we were really trying to think how would we feel as kids about knowing where we came from. And we both felt that we were such inquisitive children that we would have probably wanted to know absolutely, who our biological father was. So our first thought was, we would try and have a baby with a friend as a donor. And so that was an option that we explored originally. And for various reasons, we had one friend who we kind of got quite far into the process with to the point of like drafting contracts, then that completely unravelled quite close to sort of thinking let’s do this,
Stu Oakley: just just just to start one second. So when you’re when you’re drafting contracts, and you’re looking Is there somebody that’s helping you With that are interested ourselves I think I
Stu Oakley: found one online okay, but especially if you googled definitely old are you I don’t like hundred percent legal contracts you’d find yes
Lotte Jeffs: there’s all of that sort of stuff out there. And so that was the furthest we got and that unravelled and then we actually had two other male friends one straight male friend one gay male friend both offer both come to us without Yeah, wanted no we It was amazing and it felt like a really really generous offer yeah
Stu Oakley: and with both guys we because we’re they looking to have children as well
Lotte Jeffs: they were thinking like this sounds like it’s an interesting arrangement and we’re open to it and you know they went as far as getting their motility checked. And, interestingly, each of both of those guys both decided for themselves. hopes that it wasn’t right for them. And they pulled out for once once for better expression.
Lotte Jeffs: And actually in the end, we went with an anonymous donor from a sperm bank, he we spent, you know a lot of time thinking about who the right person was. And we chose someone and I am so so pleased, we were ended an anonymous donor, the thought now of having to factor in a third person, even if it was a friend who said, they were perfectly happy to have nothing to do with the child. The thought now that me and my wife and our daughter would be together and we’d be like, oh, someone’s a friend. Like, we need to go and see him we haven’t seen him for is just so like, Yeah, he just be something we were thinking about. Yeah. And with the scenario we have right now, it’s just the three of us and that’s really, really nice. So it was almost like we had to go through that whole process of explaining ringlets options before realising that that was the right one for us. And the absolutely was. Now I do know people who have really great sort of queer parenting arrangements where I will be speaking to them as well. Yes, we will. And that really works for them. So this is just what worked for us in the end. So bought some sperm, got it delivered to a clinic, when in on the right day had our UI treatment, which is into you trying insemination, which is very straightforward. It’s not a tool like IVF there’s no
Stu Oakley: How is that different IVF
Lotte Jeffs: there’s no injections. It doesn’t take place like in a test tube. It’s literally I mean, people say it’s, I would take you based, it’s obviously not attackee booster, but it’s better to test birth. The sperm is deposited into where it needs to be via require no straightforward method. And then you sort of sit in this quite technical room for like 20 minutes. And that was awkward. The nurse like does it and then she leaves the room. So you and your partner just left in the room and then it’s just like, Okay. Now what do we do now? Yeah. So you’re left in the room to just either know, freak out about what you’ve just done. And then the nurse comes back in after like 20 minutes like Yeah, that’s it. Good. You good to go. Then you wait two weeks and you do the pregnancy test and then
Stu Oakley: Wow,
Lotte Jeffs: Bob’s your uncle is like, that makes it sound so
Stu Oakley: solid made it sound very easy and very simple. And I think there’s a lot of different parts of that journey, which we could probably go into a lot more detail and
Lotte Jeffs: we will we will do and also just to preface everything was saying like, I know it’s not that easy for some people, and maybe if we try again, or maybe if I try something also to talk about Yeah. Maybe it won’t be as easy for me. So I’m so conscious that,
Stu Oakley: but that’s why we also want to hear from other people as well. We wanted to speak to our community and we want to hear from everyone. So if you do have a story and you do want to share and you know, you want your, your story to be told as part of some families, we are at some families pod, and our details are in the show notes. So please get in contact. Yeah,
Lotte Jeffs: contact us on Instagram, which is my preferred means of communication personally, or Twitter,
Stu Oakley: or throw us on Twitter. Or get your auntie cell to communicate? Yes.
Lotte Jeffs: Sally is someone who will be making an appearance throughout the podcast. She is somebody who just asks the really impertinent questions like she’ll come up to you sort of drunkenly clutching a big warm glass of white wine at a party and sort of ask you like, who the real mom is, or I don’t know, just those questions that were like, no. So we’re going to be addressing some of those guests. Questions and giving you the tools and some ideas of how
Stu Oakley: to how you can answer them and and maybe you can play it to one Sally as well. And then we’ll talk about some other things as well, you know, different subjects and topics that are that have come up along our, our gay parenting journey.
Lotte Jeffs: Yes. So we’ll be talking about all of the issues that are quite specific to gay and lesbian parenting and transgender and queer parenting of any kind. Because I think it’s important also to say like, so much of parenting is democratising, and so much of it is the same whether you’re gay, straight, trans, whatever, but there is some difference. Yes, definitely. And the more you know, I get into being a parent, the more I notice how many differences there are, so we’ll be talking about things like being the only dad or gay dad or a mother and baby group. Yes,
Stu Oakley: yes. Because a lot of mommy and baby mother fit mommy this mommy that and As a gay father, it can be really alienating. Yeah, really alienating. And I think sometimes even if you’re just not a gay dad, whether you’re just a dad just or any dad, and you’re in that environment, then why should you may be feel a bit alienated from it. And I think that’s a really interesting area that I’d love to discuss and hear more from people who have experienced something similar. Yeah. And then, you know, and then all the other things that come with it as well. And like you say, it is everything you come across as a general parent anyway, but there’s just a few little added things, right? Apparently, for example, what’s your daughter going to do on Mother’s Day? Exactly.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, so things like that, like, our children going to be bullied at school more than they would be if they didn’t have gay parents, you know, what sort of language do we give them? What kind of tools do we give them to be able to explain where they come from to be able to talk about their family confidently and with pride and you know, how do we articulate that to our children so they can talk about it.
Stu Oakley: We’ve got some great people coming on as well that we’re going to be speaking to
Lotte Jeffs: hopefully, anyone listening to this podcast will find something in it that resonates with them Gay Straight. I mean, I’m imagining most of you are gay if you clicked listen to this podcast, but maybe not and welcome, welcome heterosexuals to our
Stu Oakley: studio and you’re welcome. And we welcome
Unknown Speaker
everybody. Everyone at World
Lotte Jeffs: please. Yeah. Listen, share with your friends. Contact us and let’s help make this a real movement. And maybe we can affect some change in the way that parenting is is viewed in society. So
Stu Oakley: let’s give you some reassurance along the way, because it’s bloody tough. It is tough
Lotte Jeffs: and on that note, we’ve both got to go home. We have kids are
Stu Oakley: in bed. Yep, it is done. Now. They’re in bed.
Lotte Jeffs: They are in bed, but At the moment, my little girl has been waking up at 3am wanting a snack. So I’ve got that to look forward to shops on the way back or what is it and be like, here we go. We give
Lotte Jeffs: me an organic banana. But on that note, Steve, it’s a pleasure.
Stu Oakley: Cheers really excited and I’m really excited for this new some family’s journey with you two
Stu Oakley: families.
Lotte Jeffs: Some families, a new podcast that explores every aspect of LGBTQ plus parenting. Subscribe now because seriously, you don’t want to miss a single episode. Also
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