In this international women’s day special Lotte and Stu are joined by the fabulous Lady Phyll to discuss, motherhood, chosen families, activism and UK Black Pride. Lady Phyll is one of the founders of UK Black Pride, she has previously been a trustee at Stonewall, worked for the Mayor of London and is now the exec-director of the human rights charity Kaleidoscope Trust (a charity that campaigns for the human rights of LGBTQ+ people in countries where they face discrimination).
Lady Phyll became pregnant when she was 19 and talks about coming out while her daughter was a child and what that meant for their relationship. She has a chosen family within the black queer community. She discusses her passion for equality and rights for all minorities and how important it is to understand every point of view and generational experience.
LINKS
https://www.ukblackpride.org.uk/
https://kaleidoscopetrust.com/
Full transcription below:
Lady Phyll: I was 19 when I fell pregnant and I guess we’ve grown up together. when you have a child young and you’re still finding your way and still understanding, who you are and what you want to do. And all of a sudden you have this responsibility, you kind of.
Have to grow together.
We had so many shared commonalities. Some of us were mothers. Some of us were carers. Some of us really understood what the world, how the world treated us in terms of discrimination or in terms of how we celebrated our blackness and our queerness and being lesbians or being bisexual.
I wanted to show my daughter that. You can be hugged every single day.
Stu Oakley: Hello, listener. And welcome to some families. I am the dare. I say talented, charming, and bloody exhausted. Dad of three. I am your host, Mr. Stu Oakley.
Lotte Jeffs: and I am the witty fabulous mum of one. And your other host, Lotte Jeffs. What happened? Who wrote this intro? Our producer has a lot to answer for it. Of course not. So self aggrandizing. Um, I’m not sure I’m feeling witty or fabulous right now, but thank you anyway, Hattie. so we have a great episode for you today.
And actually having said that I don’t feel fabulous having just spoken to this amazing person. I don’t think I could feel any more fabulous than how she’s made me feel, because she has really, really inspired me and lifted my spirits in so many ways. to Mark international women’s day It is Lady Phyll.
Stu Oakley: it is indeed. And if I can add to the cheese dare I say she is once, twice, three times a lady. But, Oh, that wasn’t, I did there wasn’t even a producer note. How very clever of me I’m adding that to my, uh, repertoire. but Lady Phyll. She is one of the co-founders of UK black pride, and she’s also been a trustee at Stonewall.
She’s also worked for the mayor of London and she’s done a lot of work for the labor party. I mean, this woman is an absolute legend.
Lotte Jeffs: And to top all of that off, she is now the executive director of the human rights charity, kaleidoscope trust. And she’s a mum.
So before we catch up with Lady Phyll, we have had somebody write into the show and share a problem with us. And as part of our problem shed series, do you and I will now attempt to tackle, your problem listener.
Thank you for getting in touch. So this is from an anonymous person who says great episode. Thank you. So your episode with Sandeep who was episode one and she spoke about having, a child at the same time as her wife. it made me think about how I have felt at times this year, I have felt that passing is friends with her partner has actually been more of a negative, although arguably it can be a positive at times.
She says, look down, restrictions have in periods meant that you shouldn’t be meeting friends for a walk or that you can, but you should respect the distance rule. I found that when going on our walk each day, I’ve often felt judged when walking with my wife passes by would stare in a way I perceived as judging us for breaking the rules, even though we weren’t.
And that got me, especially as my wife was heavily pregnant. And we should arguably have been taking even more care, which we certainly were. I sometimes feel it again in this look down. If we walk shoulder to shoulder this time with our daughter strapped to us, I actually whack out the PDAs. If the staring appears to go on too long, I hate that.
I feel people are thinking we’ve broken the rules. I guess that’s just part of heteronormative society though. Stew
Stu Oakley: I a hundred percent relate to this. it’s something, I feel a lot of the time anyway, and it definitely has been heightened during lockdown and during the pandemic in the sense that I’m always thinking. That, I, my husband and I, you know, we shouldn’t be seeing each other or we two friends, are we two friends out with the kids?
You know, especially as in the past, we’ve had the comments, you know, Oh, where’s mummy, is today mummy’s day off, et cetera, et cetera. And I must say, even if it’s just completely in my mind, which. I would think it is. And that’s the advice I would give to our, our listener that’s re written in it.
It’s more likely to be in your mind. And I think sometimes people don’t judge us as much as we, we judge our own selves. I think it just adds another element of feeling super hyper-conscious that you are a queer parent in a heteronormative world.
Lotte Jeffs: My advice for you is to keep listening to this episode, because what you’re about to hear is going to inspire you so much and give you all of the confidence you need to walk through life with your head held high. Introducing the amazing Lady Phyll.
Stu Oakley: Listener during our chat with the incredible Lady Phyll, I just wanted to highlight that we do touch on the subject of domestic abuse and violence in case this is a potential trigger for anybody listening.
Lotte Jeffs: So Lady Phyll thank you so much for joining us on some families. It’s such an honour to have you on our podcast, and we’re really excited to talk to you about so many things. we thought maybe a fun way to start, seeing us where a podcast, all about parents and children would be to start by asking you how you think your children would describe you today.
Lady Phyll: or is that fun or is that dangerous? I think that my daughter would say that I am. I’m loud. She would say that I’m fun. She would say I’m deep and meaningful. And actually I’m probably her best friend as well.
Lotte Jeffs: God, that’s all we can hope for, for my kids when they’re older. That’s so nice.
Stu Oakley: nice to have that relationship. just to clarify as well. So how many children do you have? Is it just your daughter?
Lady Phyll: just my daughter, biologically and I have an older boy who, I treat as my son who you would’ve met. That’s Josh rivers.
that’s as chosen family. And, you know, sometimes you meet somebody and they automatically. Turn into that family member or that son or that daughter or niece or nephew that you never had. And yeah, we just have a, a strong bond and him and my daughter get on like house on fire.
Stu Oakley: so Lady Phyll we’re so excited, as you said to talk to you and hear about your own experiences as an LGBT parent. And in fact, I actually believe, well, I know it that you are our first queer grandmother as well that we have on the show, which is, is very exciting.
Um, and we’ll get all into that, but I’d love it. If you could take us and our listener back to when you. Best have children when they first came into your life and, and what the situation was like for you at that time.
Lady Phyll: I should just clarify the grandmother parts. you mentioned that beginning chosen families. So I have, another girl who, I raised from when she was about. 12. And she’s got two amazing children that call me grandmother. and that’s where it’s from. My daughter, my biological daughter is 25 and doesn’t have any children yet touch work, not right now.
And Josh doesn’t have any children yet either as well. I guess your question about going right back and families and parents, him for me, I think that understanding. The meaning of parents. In first and foremost, we know that there’s no manual handbook on how to be a brilliant parents.
nobody tells you what to do when your child is coughing at nights and you can’t go to sleep. But then also nobody. Prepares you, if you are going to come out in your own journey and what that means for your children or your child’s coming out journey. So I think that there’s a number of different pathways that I’ve taken.
Some haven’t been as I wanted them to be some, have just been so beautiful to watch flourish in terms of the relationship that I built with my, my daughter that lives with me. And there’s also times where. You want to cry because you’re so frustrated at not being able to protect them from all that life throws at them.
And that could be anything from the discrimination that they will face, that you know, that they will face or from, predators or praying eyes that look at them in different ways. and this immense sense of. Responsibility that you have, that you are no longer caring for yourself. You’re no longer feeding just yourself or making sure that you’ve got, you know, bus fare or petrol to go down the road.
But you have someone that is accompanying you all the time and you’ve got to protect them with your life. That’s the biggest change that I have ever envisaged or seen in my whole entire life.
Lotte Jeffs: And you were quite young when you had your first child, is that right?
Lady Phyll: Yeah. So I was 19 when I fell pregnant and I guess we’ve grown up together. when you have a child young and you’re still finding your way and still understanding, who you are and what you want to do. And all of a sudden you have this responsibility, you kind of.
Have to grow together. she understood the, you know, I had to go to work to make ends meet, but how did you balance that with studying work and being a parent at the same time? And that’s never easy. And even now that she’s grown, it’s still not easy. although I do treat her like a bit of a baby
Lotte Jeffs: did you feel quite alone with it at that time? We, we supported by your partner at the time and wider family.
Lady Phyll: so I have, yeah, I have a great family network and my mother and father were both in England, so they were super supportive. but of course you still have to do it yourself, you know, from breastfeeding’s a change in a box or to nighttimes. And I lived by myself as well, but they were, they were supportive and a partner.
there was a, it was a volatile, very, very negative relationship. So a particular period of my daughter’s life and mine, we were in a safe house for a little bit.
Lotte Jeffs: And would you mind telling us about when your coming out journey happened in relation to that narrative?
Lady Phyll: So, I mean, coming out is a, is an iterative process and you’re constantly doing it over and over again, just like now. So, and I hope that this is not triggering for anybody that’s listening, but my coming out journey was my daughter was 18 months. And I mentioned to the father of my child that, you know, this is really not working.
I’ve always known something was incredibly different about myself. yes, I’m a lover of people, but I had been reading so many books and I just wanted to connect to a different parts of me that went down so badly with the father of my child. And, um, Yeah, on top of it being a volatile relationship, it was also, an experience of where violence came into play.
So from when she was 18 months, we were in the safe house. And I guess having nothing leaving with absolutely nothing, but this, you know, really gorgeous child in tow, I had to start all over again, but that. Starting over again also felt like unveiling the mosque of not having to live a lie. It also felt really quite liberates him, even though I didn’t have like a pot to pee and, you know, you make, you make things work.
And I guess that journey for me in. Being in that house and then getting my first flats and setting up house and home and then meeting somebody was. compounded with the fact that my family also were not accepting. I come from a very strict family, that ground, that Christians and church religion played such a big part.
So I had so many moving parts to my life. And all I could think of is that I wanted to be happy and I wanted to make this, this bundle of joy happy at the same time. But I also had a family that wants to be there for my daughter, but was so incredibly angry at me for as a cooler, you know, my lifestyle choosing to be with somebody.
And I say choosing an inverted commerce because I don’t believe it’s a choice. I believe, you know what you know about yourself and you make the right decisions for you.
Lotte Jeffs: Mm
Stu Oakley: I can see why then with that situation, the F the, the chosen family that you’ve chosen along the way have been so important to you, because it’s fairly common within the LGBT community to be able to choose our family and choose who we, who we want to envelop, you know, with our love as well.
Lady Phyll: Absolutely.
Stu Oakley: so was it that point in time for you then that you really started to build that community around you when it was just you and your daughter, pretty much on your own.
Lady Phyll: I would say probably a year after that, because I remember her being. Three, actually, it was when she was about three years old that, um, I was able to like go into libraries, read up a little bit more on Audrey Lorde and bell hooks and all of the women that had inspires, meats, uh, Drive forward.
And I got involved with, an organisation called block B L U K stands for black lesbians in UK. And this organisation just had so many women that, You connected to, they, we had so many shared commonalities. Some of us were mothers. Some of us were carers. Some of us really understood what the world, how the world treated us in terms of discrimination or in terms of how we celebrated our blackness and our queerness and being lesbians or being bisexual.
and at the time, I, I don’t think I had met. Within the group, any trans sisters, but we also spoke about, how we show up and step up and step out for our trans sisters. But it felt like family, it felt like what was missing from Being marginalised from my family because of how they saw me.
It felt like I had created or been adopted into something new that was fresh. That was vibrant. And that was ever so supportive. fast forward, I think. Started to get involved with a lot more of the activities. There were things that my daughter could get involved in. She met other children who, had their parents who were queer and it felt nice.
And of course, you know, it just grows and grows from there.
Lotte Jeffs: It’s
such a powerful moment. Isn’t it? When you first find your people, however that happens, your first moment of walking into a lesbian bar or going to your first pride it’s life changing.
Lady Phyll: It really isn’t and those moments stay with you. And I, I guess, you know, you mentioned about your first bar, when I went into my first bar, Oh my gosh, this was in Hemel, Hempstead. I couldn’t believe there was. So many women that loved women that express themselves in different ways that women could look so different.
Some of us were Butch, some of us were fam. Some of us were masculine presenting. Some of us were, wearing lipstick and a pretty frock, you know, it was just so diverse within our own, you know, lesbian and BI community. And yeah. And it felt good to be in that space, but I also couldn’t help thinking that the actual space didn’t really reflect me as a black woman, but it was a space nevertheless, to be able to dance and be free and, you know, be unapologetically.
You.
Stu Oakley: and just for our listeners as well. I just want to clarify, Are we talking about the mid nineties?
Lady Phyll: Yes, we all.
Stu Oakley: to clarify the era of which we’re in and how far in progressive things were or were not at that time.
Lotte Jeffs: And so, you discovered activism. I mean, obviously it was already in you, you just sort of found some, some voices, like, would you Lorde and bell hooks who helped give voice to what you were feeling, and then you found people who also helped you become the person you always destined to be that spirit of activism.
Is it something that you tried to install in your children Are they now as politically engaged as you. And how do you think they felt as children seeing you in that way and being part of that world?
Lady Phyll: Activism is one of these words that it’s rather subjective and it. Takes many different forms, but I’ve always been active. I can remember as young as being 12 and 13 and getting sense out of the classroom, because I was speaking about things that related to enslavement, to slavery, to colonialism, when all I was being taught was battle of Hastings and Henry the eighth’s wives and so forth.
It’s part of my DNA. My grandmother as well was incredibly active within Ghana, back home. So. What’s taught or handed over is the knowledge that you have about your history, your culture, your tradition. And that certainly has gone through some, my daughter’s Hertz to Josh who was already. Really engaged politically because our beans, once you are queer, you’re black, you’re a woman you’re young.
you’re from a working class background, whatever that sort of social categorization is that you fall into, you are active because you have to be resilient because of the way the world treats you. So I think for me, Making sure that my daughter was able to step in that right direction. It was about providing her with the tools and the understanding of how the world works.
Of course, they’re not going to get everything because they need to make their own way through the world. But the little that I could pass on ideas and you know, my daughter, when she. Got into university. She was, part of every society and she, you know, I’m always saying to her, you can come out. If you want to, you know, I’m really here for you.
She’s like, no, mum, I really love men. I really do. I’m straight. I’m like, I’m here for you,
Lotte Jeffs: like that classic scene in absolutely fabulous where they want, they desperately want Sophie to be a lesbian and she’s not.
Lady Phyll: Yeah. But my daughter is definitely straight, so she keeps on telling me
Lotte Jeffs: so it’s amazing to think how different the home and the family that you created. For yourself and your children was from your own upbringing. so from what I understand, you were brought up in a Ghanaian household and family in, in London,
Lady Phyll: In London. And then we moved out to halt for furniture.
Lotte Jeffs: could you tell us a bit about the main differences in then sort of upbringing and culture and how, what you’ve kept, what you’ve, what you’ve changed?
Lady Phyll: Yeah. I mean, that’s a really nice question. but also one that honours some things that maybe. You try to forget in how you’ve been raised. I mean, my parents have done a marvellous job, if I say so myself, but at the same time, there was a real strict upbringing of, you know, if it’s not about church and it’s not about education, Then there wasn’t really anything else to it.
Apart from we had a richness in our, in my siblings where we were connected with each other. Our language, our culture, the traditions that we, try to understand, because this is my parents, but what I’ve changed was the fact that I wanted to show my daughter that. You can be hugged every single day.
My parents, we didn’t say, I love you. Or, you know, Oh, here’s a hug. Oh, you’re hurt. Or you’re sad. Let’s explore that feeling. And I guess for my parents just to do them some justice, because. They came to this country with the intention of raising children and for them to get a good education and a better way of life than they had.
the pressures that they felt and face were very different. So the pressures that I faced today, of course, there was still racism, but in a very different way, my parents are, were a lot more diplomatic and didn’t want to rock the boat. So a lot of the hurt and pain was internalised and they were coping with.
The best of a bad situation of being in a country, which was very foreign to them. Whereas now I could raise my daughter in a way where I could give her a hug and I could say, I love you. I was born in this country and there’s different opportunities and platforms and spaces for us to enjoy each other and enjoy the time that we spend together.
I guess my parents were really busy. Trying to make money, trying to work nights to provide for us. Whereas I got ahead starts because they gave me that platform. So it meant that I could change my ways or what I didn’t like about my upbringing, which was about not going there church, because I didn’t feel that.
Church reflected how I live my life. And given that, LGBT plus people are always demonised or vilified by, you know, religion or it’s used as a weapon against us. I was like, I don’t need to reconcile my faith, religion belief with my sexuality, because it’s just not going to happen. I’m probably more spiritual. My daughter hasn’t had any of that imposed on her and certainly nor has Josh, be free and be yourself and experiments, explore don’t be scared to be different. Whereas I wish my parents would have said that to me.
Lotte Jeffs: I think it’s so interesting. Something I’ve been thinking about recently sort of thinking about my own mother and how I was brought up is how parenting like trickles down generation to generation but we also have the opportunity to change.
And be the parent that we want to be. And then our children are going to take some of that and also be their own selves. So I’ve just been thinking recently about how, how parenting
Stu Oakley: Evolves. Doesn’t it.
Lotte Jeffs: in generations of a family. And, and we’re all sort of freeing ourselves at each level. We’re freeing ourselves from what came before us.
Lady Phyll: Yeah. Yeah. And it also depends on, you know, where are you in the world in terms of how freeing it can be? What sort of tools and resources do you have at your disposal? You know, growing up there, wasn’t the internet in that. In that way. whereas now, there’s every social media platform that you can go on and people can give advice.
Great tips on parents, in what works for, you know, your child or what doesn’t. So it’s a very different time. But one thing I definitely notice about. Parents that are now grandparents. They are ever so soft and tender and caring with their grandchildren. You know, my daughter might say, Oh my gosh, you know, the S H I T word, and I’m not going to swear, but.
If I was to have upset that when I was like 10 or 15, I would be getting a clip around the ear or something stronger. Whereas my mum would be like, Oh, leave her. Oh, she’s just a child. Oh, she’s great. And I’m thinking you’ve, you’ve really grown a lot. Yeah.
Stu Oakley: And how have, and how have your parents grown over the years then? did you see the, The evolution of their thinking in terms of them, of them understanding who you are and understanding you and your daughter.
Lady Phyll: Yeah, it took. my dad was really quick to understand that I’m a bit of a daddy’s girl and he was like, you know, I love you unconditionally. And that was as he got older, you know, I’ve been out well over 20 years now, but my mom is still very much at. I would say tolerance stage even 20 years on, I know that she loves me.
I know that she cares for me, but when you come from a country where there are still laws that criminalize LGBT people and you come from a country where there is no language to explain lesbian or gay. Unless it’s derogatory. That takes years of learning. So I’m no longer angry at my mom for the lack of acceptance in inverted commas, you know, I’m more troubled that it takes such a long time to reverse this. And people have to be willing to unlearn bad behaviors. They have to be willing to unlearn what they’re saying actually impacts on people differently. But yeah, she, I think she’s probably proud when she sees me on the news. And when I’m, you know, telling her about being in Vogue or being in a Harper’s bizarre.
And then when I say what it’s for, we never really delve deeper. You know, she knows what UK black pride is. She knows that her daughter does lots of things, but we don’t go into so much detail because I know for her it’s still slightly uncomfortable. And any partner would be seen as a very special friends and not necessarily the same as my siblings, husbands and wives.
You, he either have to learn to live with some of this, or it can actually eats away at you. So I’ve come to a place where I can’t change everything. and what I have got. Is still quite beautiful, even though it’s not the idyllic picture that I want. So I can only do best for what I want to see my daughter experience.
And it doesn’t have to feel as hurtful and as painful as it does to not get the full acceptance from my mother.
Stu Oakley: In terms of right now, or this moment in time, obviously Ghana is in a, in a situation where the, the already stringent restrictions and laws around LGBTQ plus people are being, elevated even more. So. and it’s obviously an incredibly hideous time for anybody who is LGBT within Ghana.
has that affected you’ve from a community? And are you seeing that from other Ghanaians, you know, within the UK, from a family point of view as well?
Lady Phyll: Yeah, absolutely. So anything that happens in Ghana. You know, I am greatly connected to my country. I always like to say that I was meeting garner and born in the UK. So Ghana for me is what will be home at some point in the future, seeing what’s happening, I’ve been involved in. Helping the campaign.
So amplify the voices of our LGBT plus communities in Ghana, but at the same time, adding air and caution, because I live in a Western States and a Western place that you don’t want to impose your wins and your movements on onto countries or different places. But at the same time, you know, my mum is seeing the news.
And actually she’s not really saying anything, but I know that there’s a deep down, this is horrible and you know, no person should have to face any form of hates or discrimination, but I think she’s trying to grapple with. What does this mean for a sort of new Ghana that could be all embracing and she’s continually going on a journey as a, some of my aunties and uncles, but some of my cousins who are a lot younger, they’re, you know, all on it on social media, this has got to change, but I guess this is a generational thing.
And until we start having. Deeper intergenerational conversations. It will be very hard for, people like my mother who are sort of 80 going on 19 to just change overnights. And that’s what we have to remember when we’re campaigning from the UK and trying to tell another country, which has had these regressive laws in place for, since it was colonised.
Lotte Jeffs: that’s such an interesting point about intergenerational conversations as well. And I think. We in the queer community generally could really benefit from spending more time with people from different, different generations and different ages. Because the experience of being a, a 20 year old queer person to somebody that’s now 60, what they experienced when they were 20 is so vastly different.
And I feel like we could all learn so much from each other. Is there a world where we could create. A kind of space or community, or does it already exist where we can be having these, these kind of ideas sharing and conversations.
Lady Phyll: Well, I’m always, re-imagining a different future and what the world could and should look like, UK black pride. Certainly aims to create and foster that sort of intergenerational conversation because we learn from the next generation about what the emerging needs are and how we respond to it.
And, you know, you’ve got organisations like blackout UK, like black and gay back in the day who are now science to really push forward images of what it looked like in the eighties and the nineties, so that we can make that comparison as to what has really changed and how far off we got to go. So it’s happening, but maybe not.
Consistently across the board.
So how do we, as a queer community really show up. For each other in those instances,
Lotte Jeffs: And so important. It’s, I mean, you’ve spent your life time, your adult lifetime showing up, I think for people and, and advocating. And, from learning a bit more about you taking in other children when you were.
younger and raising other children. I wondered to the extent to which you’re comfortable discussing it, because you may well have some privacy issues around it. But, just because we do talk a lot about fostering and adoption on, on the show, if you wouldn’t mind being a bit more specific in, the parenting relationship you had with your, your other non-biological children and how they came into your life and, and how that will work.
I think particularly for listeners who. Uh, maybe foster, foster carers and things to sort of put it in relation to that.
Lady Phyll: I will try to be as specific as possible, but explaining this in a way that doesn’t divulge too much. I spent time with myself, knowing that what I went through in being in a safe house and having to raise a child and still being able to live, survive, and thrive that you open up yourself to others to be their sort of vessel and support them. And I I’m naturally an empath and a carer. And when I opened up my heart, so this beautiful young girl that had so much going on, she didn’t judge me on being a black lesbian woman what she saw was somebody that wants to care for her that once it’s closed her, that wants, it’s a made sure that she had food and to make sure that she had warmth and love. And. I would say any of your listeners who are carers, who foster or adopt, you know, I salute you because we need more people out there. There are far too many children. Who are homeless. There are far too many children who are in the care system and especially children from black and Asian, African, Caribbean, backgrounds that are not being placed into care.
So if you have the ability to open up your hearts and your home, I would say, please, please, please do it and to feel like you’re in this safe and brave space that nobody can touch you that you’re, you’re not going to be harmed because you’ve got this. Bubble of protection around you from family, whether it’s chosen, whether it’s biological.
Lotte Jeffs: Okay. And did Josh come into your life a bit later down the line
Lady Phyll: yeah, he was definitely an adult, even though I know he’s going to listen to this. And even though he was still quite a big child,
The fact that he can see me as a mother figure the will protect him, that will give him guidance.
But also not to judge him. So that non-judgment or mothership stewardship was important for him. Because he was going through his things.
I was going through mine, but we could still be there to hold and lift each other up and feel empowered.
Lotte Jeffs: It’s so inspiring and it’s really inspiring to think that you can find these parental figures, and to just be open-hearted to embrace that, or also to be that person that you are feel who.
Welcome saves people in. And hope that I’ll be in a position to be able to do that myself one day
Lady Phyll: Yeah. you, you might be doing that already and you don’t even know there’s a chosen family between you and Stu that, you might not even recognise that actually you’re like siblings or, you know, you might be like that
Stu Oakley: I see Lotte very much as my sister. She’s my, she’s my podcast wife. And, uh, definitely fell. Yeah, not my mother, From what you were saying and saying about how your relationship with Josh, like. if somebody is in trouble, you’d look after them so much.
And you’d be that kind of guiding light for someone. You can really see that. and I was thinking about this term earlier grandmother, and I was thinking, you know, actually that’s what you are not a grandmother, but it’s like this, you are the grand mother. Like you are the mother of all.
Lotte Jeffs: the mother of all mothers.
Lady Phyll: Well, it’s funny. You should say that because there was, there’s this title that has gone around and when I’m speaking somewhere, they’re like, Oh, the mother of the movement, like how queer black movement, because I very much see everyone that attends UK black pride, whether you’re black, you’re white, you’re young, you’re old.
You are coming into a space. Which is about love and harmony and about celebration. And I see them as family and I especially looked to that next generation. And if there’s anything that I can do to help cultivate or really make sure that the ground feels solid for them, I do it. And. Heading into my work with AKT, which is the Albert Kennedy trust.
It’s about working with young people, especially young marginalised and vulnerable people that have found themselves homeless or will be facing a dire situation. And every one of them, I see them as family I think. Care and compassion.
And that’s what I keep on saying, you know, when I leave this earth, I don’t want to be known for anything else, but having shown care and compassion to those that may not have seen it.
Lotte Jeffs: Phil, do you feel like you can show that care and compassion to yourself or do you ever, get burnt out and exhausted by the amount that you give
Lady Phyll: well, I was hoping that question didn’t come out because I’m probably one of the worst that’s applying self care. but you know, you can’t pour from an empty cup, so I’m, I’m really learning to. No, that I’m able to say no and spell the word. No. and sometimes just stepping back and what Josh and my, my, my daughter, my youngest. do for me
they create a space that they can say, you know what? It’s okay. just have today for yourself but burnout your right is so, so real. everybody has mental health. I think when you become burns, how that’s, when it can turn into support or ill mental health. And I guess for me, I’m trying to find better ways to. Navigate situations, but also take time out. Yeah, for me,
especially as I’m getting older as well.
Stu Oakley: Well, I want you to talk a little bit about, UK black pride as well. I suppose I wanted to ask you with UK black pride, what’s the plan next?
Like, what’s your, what’s the future look like for UK black pride?
Lady Phyll: I think it’s important for listeners to know that you came black pride was. Born out of and creative because of a frustration and a lack of not seeing ourselves in the wider mainstream, LGBT plus activities. it didn’t speak to our, our culture. Our heritage is on, Safe. It didn’t speak to the issues that we face around racism and homophobia and bi-phobia and transphobia.
We’ve grown from 2005 to like having 200 people in one space to 2019, having over 10,000 in the space of Haggerston park.
And then last year, because of COVID, we had a virtual online events which reached out to about 30,000 people and then subsequently more from those watch him. So the future of UK black pride is very much still about protection. It’s about safety. It’s about bravery. It’s about expression. It’s about inclusion and it’s about making sure that everything we do for UK black pride takes an intersectional approach.
So when we know that our trans siblings are facing the worst form of attack via the media, how do we support them rather than. Pile more pressure on them to speak at events when they’re exhausted and tired, you know, what does allyship really look like if I don’t have the lived experience of a trans person, but have also an understanding of, race and equity and how that pans out.
So the future really is about. Continue in this work because we’re a movement and not a moment. We have always been speaking about black lives matter. We’ve always been speaking about trans lives matter. We’ve always been speaking about those many different areas. I think that. No, I think I know that our work is about getting deeper into communities, not making things so London centric, because we have got, our families, our chosen families based all around the country and in devolved nations, it’s about also putting resources back into our community.
If we raise, you know, 500 pounds, then we will go to our migrant and asylum seeker and, refugee community and say, look, this is some money for you to join an online event and top up your data. And I think it’s about being creative and innovative with how. You spend money within our community.
So that access feels like it’s for all and not just a select few.
Lotte Jeffs: And, um, are there any family or parenting networks or groups within UK black pride that you could tell our listeners about
Lady Phyll: our chair of our board of trustees, Maude Gober.
She has a son and this is through alternative families. And she’s now talking about adoption and caring, and we’re always making sure that people know that families is not just a set one way. It is about difference.
Lotte Jeffs: Thank you. And just finally, um, because it’s international women’s day this month, could you, um, just end by telling us about somebody that you have found, um, particularly inspirational in your life and work.
Lady Phyll: That’s too hard. I have,
Stu Oakley: have a top three, if you want.
Lady Phyll: Oh, there are so many, you know, I guess my grandmother, may she rest in peace? She. was an activist. One of the first women to build a church in Ghana and spoke out against the misogyny and the sexism that men told her, that she needed to take her back seat Then you’ve got my, my daughter who.
Is inspiring on a daily basis, because she does not hold back when it comes to talking about human rights around, you know, spaces for LGBT people or what it means to be a black woman entering into the entertainment industry as a singer. And I guess the third one will be any. Woman, any person that identifies as a woman that has touched my life, that has spoken to me that has been part of UK black pride or any organization that I’ve been in.
I would say they all inspire me because I take something from everybody I meet and that’s how I learn and I grow. So I guess they’ve helped build up who this person is that sits before you as Lady Phyll
Lotte Jeffs: Oh,
Stu Oakley: Phil, you certainly inspire us. I think you are our inspiration. Um, so thank you so much for, for taking the time to speak with us today.
Lady Phyll: no, thank you so much. And I love what you’re doing
Stu Oakley: Well, I hope you enjoyed that listener as much as we did, and we always love to hear from you. So if you have any comments, do drop us a note.
You can stalk us on Instagram or even on Twitter. We are at some families pod, or you can even email us@somefamiliesatstoryhunter.co.uk or. Listener. If you’re listening to this on Apple podcasts, please leave us a review. Please leave us a rating because it helps us tremendously.
Lotte Jeffs: that’s right. And also we have a new website we’re really coming up in the world. It’s some families, pod.com, and we even are going to launch a newsletter. So please go to the website to sign up.
Stu Oakley: Thank you, you for listening,
Lotte Jeffs: we’ll be back next week with another one until then get buy from me.
Stu Oakley: And it’s goodbye from me.
Lotte Jeffs: Goodbye
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