This week the hosts interview each other on how their parenting journeys have developed since the start of the podcast. Whilst still in lockdown, Stu records his interview in a circus tent and Lotte shares an instagram faux pas. Stu talks about being a father of 3 and how Covid has halted the adoption process. Lotte talks about being the other mother, what that meant whilst her wife was pregnant, and what sort of mother she wants to be for her daughter.
Lotte Jeffs: Hello and welcome to some families, the LGBTQ plus and everything in between parenting podcast that you have been waiting for. Hopefully you’ve been following our journey up until this point with our previous episodes if you’re new, and this is the first episode you’re listening to, well welcome my name is Lottie Jeff’s I’m a journalist, a writer and a magazine editor and my fabulous co host is Stu Oakley. Hello.
Stu Oakley: Hello. Again this week due to the wonderful COVID We are not in the same place. So I don’t get to. Hence I don’t get to see lots of lovely face apart from on my video screen. But the show must go on.
Lotte Jeffs: Just to give you guys a bit of context as well. I’m looking at Stu on my zoom screen and he has basically like a circus Big Top behind him which is his kids. garden This episode, we have two fabulous guests. We’re incredibly excited. They are attractive, charming, witty, incredibly intelligent.
Stu Oakley: And they are us. They are indeed today I’m going to be revealing all about my secret circus fetish.
Stu Oakley: No, no.
Lotte Jeffs: I’m going to be asking Stu. Just what he gets up to. It’s a big top bet.
Stu Oakley: The Ring the ring, I am the ring. I am the ringmaster. But anyway, anyway, that aside, I mean, because I mean, who is Lottie? I still don’t really know her. I had a few questions for her in episode one. And we kind of talked about the fact that her and her wife did our UI yada, yada yada, but who is the woman behind the mic? I want to know more. So today we are delving a bit more into our journeys before we kick off all that, I mean, how has your week been Lotte? Have you been up to
Lotte Jeffs: My weeks been good, I’m feeling like I’m really getting into being a housewife. And like, because I’m quite competitive, my wife and I split our days with our daughter, as so when it’s my day to look after her. I have this insanely like competitive drive to do it really, really well. And so that when she comes down from our home office in the evening, I’ve made the kitchens all clean. I’ve made dinner everything’s put away. There’s a scented candle, their daughter’s playing it classic. Yeah, she’s asleep. Actually, my wife puts it put her to sleep while I did all of this. Put on a little playlist on the iPad coming out the speaker like feeling like I’m just like the best housewife since Betty Draper. And then weirdly like I quite enjoying it, it feels like it’s it’s just a simpler life. And there’s a lot to be said for it. I think as long as you’re not someone that’s dealing with the harsh realities of the situation, we’re in, like on the front line with it or worried about someone that’s ill worried about yourself or your family or lost your job. You know, actually, there are there are definitely some positives that are going to come from it. What about you, Stu?
Stu Oakley: Yeah, I completely agree. It’s for us and I would say we’re very lucky, both of us with our with our situations, and I was even thinking about the other day. So when we did when we did our adoption training, we had to do some get some training in with children. It was part of the mandate, and it couldn’t just be, you know, looking after nieces or nephews or whatever it had to be actually to show that we had experience with children. So john and I signed up to a local There are a charity, a local charity that looks after special needs children and children with specific learning difficulties. And we did that each weekend for a few months. And the rest by that that centre gave to so so many parents, even if it was just a few hours on a Saturday morning, it was so important. And I was just thinking the other day, how how like those parents must be feeling at the moment to not be getting that rest by and to not be getting that care for their children that they so desperately need for their own mental health for their other children’s mental health for for them for their well being is it makes me feel very blessed and I think being in a situation and not having to face real hardship. makes you realise how lucky you are and maybe makes you makes one stop moaning about Life in a certain way. And as you say, going back to a simpler way of life.
Lotte Jeffs: Totally. And I think if at home, you’re listening to this, and you are experiencing a really hard time, for whatever reason with your family, we’d love to hear from you. And we’d love to hear your story. So please contact us on Instagram or social media or email us at
Stu Oakley: YouTube. We are at some families@storyhunter.co.uk Oh,
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, please do get in touch. Yeah. So yeah, my weeks been, it’s been really nice so far. It’s in terms of like LGBTQ parenting. I mean, it’s just like every day is some variation of the same thing, isn’t it? Like, I’m not. We’re not going out and about and meeting people and coming into contact with prejudice or anything at the moment. We’re just all on lockdown. So it’s been quite a year. time but something, something funny did happen actually this week that I’m going to admit. So, okay. So he has this thing where she likes me to draw pity so. So, my daughter has this thing where she says to me, Mama, draw a picture of mummy draw a picture of Mama. So I often find myself drawing like little cartoon pictures of me and my wife and her. And I did this one. She was she was sitting in her high chair, we were having dinner and she said, draw, draw Mama. So I was standing overhead, I drew it with her crayon but I drew it upside down because I was sitting opposite her. So I drew an upside down portrait of myself and upside down portrait of my wife and then a little picture of her as well and a heart and I wrote mama and mummy upside down, which is harder than you might think. Like the writing letters, the wrong way around. Anyway. The next day I saw this little picture that I drawn for my daughter, I saw it on the table and I thought, Oh, that’s so cute. That’s actually a really sweet picture. And I took a picture on my phone of this drawing I’d done for it and I put it on Instagram with the caption lockdown still life. I then proceeded to get a load of lovely likes and comments, but everybody thought that it was my daughter who had done this drawing. And so I was getting loads of people saying, brilliant, she’s really got your likeness. She’s so talented, blah, blah. Now bear in mind, my daughter’s not even two she’s two in like, three months. But it got to the point where I was too embarrassed to say that I that I had done it. And that actually I’m now in this predicament where I feel like I misleading a lot of people that I and I’m like what really creepy, like pretending to have that my daughter’s done during that I actually did. Oh, anyway, I mean, in all honesty, it’s like the most ridiculous thing. But what would you do? Would you fess up? That actually I have done the drawings? Because at the moment, everyone thinks my toddler is like some kind of genius.
Stu Oakley: Oh, sorry for my delay. I was just on the phone calling the police to report a crime.
Stu Oakley: I saw the picture. I saw the picture. And I must admit, for a fraction of a second I thought, fuck Wow. daughter is really talent. And then it’s something that I was like, Oh, no, wait a minute. That must have been Lotte. But
Lotte Jeffs: That’s what I thought it would be obvious because everyone that follows me on instagram knows how young My daughter is and I actually thought it was quite a good draw.
Stu Oakley: I did that. Should you feel more safe? Just one of those. I think you should feel more. Maybe be put out that people think that your drawing is that over over a two year old. Although to be fair, my only drawing that I could ever do is I can only ever do stick stick bend stick women that’s it so hats off to you for it I have no artist and I
Lotte Jeffs: Just it’s easy I just draw I mean my it’s not it’s not a good picture if you’re interested you can go and find me at Lottie Jeff’s and have a look at this offending picture. And I will know who’s been listening to the podcast by who leaves a comment to that effect. So yeah, do I dress up on Instagram? Or do I just carry on the lie I think do you carry on? I don’t one and a half year old is a budding cat. I
Stu Oakley: Don’t think it’s so much of a lie. And I don’t you’re misleading people I think he’s just quite funny that some people out there potentially stupid enough to think that a two year old did that maybe so
Stu Oakley: I think Let them
Lotte Jeffs: Say what about yesterday how’s your week being?
Stu Oakley: So we have decided to use lockdown as an opportunity to toilet train our middle son and use this time to not worry about him running around naked and not worry about him wetting himself when we’re out, etc, etc. Plus he was pretty interested in the toilet anyway because of his older sister. So it seemed like the right time and he is two and a half. And we talked before about how I was dealing with my little girls nuni when we were going through changing her nappy, and oh my god suddenly being face to face with the vagina, which I’ve never done in my life. And so now it’s the exact opposite. It’s my husband and I tried to deal with the fact that he’s got this little Winky that he’s using and helping him hold it standing up to go to the toilet or just general care. Little Winky and getting used to getting used to the obsession that he now has off his little Winky. So it’s he’s playing with it all the time. He’s using it as a garden hose. He’s it’s a, it’s new, it’s a new toy, basically. And he’s incredibly proud of it and is using it an awful lot. And oh my god, and it’s so funny. And it’s also going back to the certain things that we talked about where it’s, it’s interesting the things you say to him, and it’s, oh, potentially overthinking things sometimes. So, I talked about my feelings of him wearing his sister’s dress and how he wants to express himself through different clothes and how I may take that as a gay man and whether I’m pushing gay gender, etc, etc. He because he’s trying to think of you, you say things to them. Like, and it’s things that you find yourself that other parents have said to you or that you’ve heard in society like Oh, stop playing with your Winky otherwise it’ll fall off or you know things like that or you’ll go Yeah, I’ll put it away or I’m you I feel really conscious that I was you need to balance that, that element of he can’t just have at home in public and be waiting everywhere and doing everything at the same time. You don’t want him to have some kind of shame about his winking. I love the Winky Tinky Winky. But it’s, it’s an interesting and it’s something I need to do more reading of and I would love to have anybody else’s, you know, guidance and support things that they’ve done on it. And when they’ve been going through the process of toilet training or little ones obsession with winkies you know, it’s
Lotte Jeffs: Also just it’s so funny that you call it Winky. Like I’d be really interested to know what are the parents philosophy about naming body parts and genitalia is every I know there’s ones. Yeah, but I know there’s one school of thought where it’s like, just use the actual word. It was quite funny. I was with a friend who’s got a three year old. And we were walking through the park and suddenly this little toddler chimes up, Mummy, my vagina is hurting. And I was just like, so taken aback. But actually, like, that’s probably great, isn’t it? It’s just asked that have the stigma around there. Yeah, the actual anatomical words like we shouldn’t. You shouldn’t necessarily transfer that sense of like awkwardness and shame onto our kids. You know, why not just call it? The thing is, yeah,
Stu Oakley: What do you call that? Then? Call your daughter’s to her at the moment.
Lotte Jeffs: We haven’t we haven’t got to that stage and thank God,
Stu Oakley: I don’t know what I was gonna say. It’s just the black hole but then that sounded completely wonky.
Lotte Jeffs: But so Stu, you just touched on this a bit about being back in that place, with your youngest son of having to kind of prove yourself again and jump through hoops for adoption agencies to get approved. I was just wondering if you could fill us in on where you’re at with that process with your son.
Stu Oakley: So the journey that we’ve been on with our youngest has been really, really interesting, mostly because it has been so so different to the journey that we went on with our first two. And it is not the usual adoption journey because we didn’t find out for a long time and I covered this before in our episode where I talked about the when we found out about him, so it’s all been a bit backward and it’s all been a bit rash and it’s all been a bit different to anything we’ve we’ve previously experienced. But it was interesting talking to all the social workers when we were going through the process because though I think the one thing that kept coming up from the mall was, how are you going to cope with three? having three is going to be this incredible nightmare of a challenge? How are you going to deal with it? And having been in it, and done it for the last almost five months now. It’s been pretty. Okay. And I think that’s one of the things I’m most proud about is the fact that we can cope as a family of five and actually dealing with three children has been okay, and it hasn’t been the horrendous pneus that the social workers were almost kind of instilling in us and even just last night, I this is a regular occurrence. It wasn’t just a went off. But last night, my husband did all the tidying up of all the dinner while I went upstairs and washed, showered, do teeth, pyjamas and all three on my own. And I just finished it. And I was like, you know what actually, that was I can do, we can do this. And the next steps for us, it’s kind of all on hold at the moment. When we had him placed with us, we have to go through a process of having him live with us for 10 weeks. And at the end of that 10 weeks, you are then able to fill in what is called the a 58 form, which is a form which formally applies for you to adopt a child to the court and it’s something you have to fill in. That’s then sent off to the family court of their local authority. they approve it and then it gets sent to the court, and you have to wait a court date and then there is a point in court where it spread and then later down the line. They do what is called the celebration hearing which is what I talked about. earlier. So we’re in the process of getting that 858 form completely filled in and ready to send off. The problem is, is that at the moment because of COVID, they’re only seeing certain cases through court. So it may take, it’s also we also have to prove we have to supply various documentation like birth certificates, etc. that is proving hard to get hold of because all the local authorities actual offices are in lockdown. So there’s a bit of a hold up moment until we can get the official official stamp of approval and then a celebration hearing, but we’re hoping it’s going to be very soon and with
Lotte Jeffs: So at the moment, Stu, are you What’s your status, are you fostering to adopt is that the correct term?
Stu Oakley: We did foster to adopt
Stu Oakley: For a period of about a month with him. Then it went to a matching panel at the local authority and the local authority approved us as potential adoptive Parents have him. And from that point you no longer become a foster to adopt you become a potential adoptee and he because he he came under our care under an adoption order, we do not have full parental responsibility for him until, until we have that full adoption order, the full parental responsibility is still under the local authority. However, in an emergency situation, there are certain decisions that we can make, and we can obviously if he was in a critical touch word God forbid situation, then they would just deal with it however they would ever need to deal with. But if it was anything less emergency related, they wouldn’t be able to take our permission as parental permission, they would need to have the local authority by his social workers permission. So we’re still in so we are still in that grey area. He does already feel like our family because he is part of our family. And he is the sibling to my son and daughter. It feels very much. Like it’s less of a concern, if that makes sense without it. I mean, obviously, it’s really important to us and we can’t wait to get it done and dusted. But the fact is being held up potentially because of COVID. And the situation has not person the spin that it potentially would have done when we adopted our our, my elder, daughter and son.
Lotte Jeffs: How has the dynamic of your family changed since having your youngest son so we’ve spoken a bit about what’s actually happening legally and in terms of the adoption process, but and you’ve you’ve talked about how it’s actually easier than you anticipated, and that social workers and everyone was sort of trying to drum into you that it would be but what about your sort of family dynamic in terms of the other two kids how It’s how they’re sort of warming to him or not, or anything that you didn’t anticipate.
Stu Oakley: I’ll be completely honest, I was always wary about having three children. Because I feel that it’s an odd number. I’m very, a bit OCD like that as well. I’m always I can never, I can never do with odd things always have to deal with, oh, no, you’re gonna have four it’s gonna have to happen. It’s gonna have to happen. Yeah, but actually, it’s been, again, it’s been fine is and I think as people and as humans and as parents, you just kind of get on and just just deal with it and build up resilience to things. And I’ve really actually enjoyed the dynamic of having a family of five and having three children. I think you can play around with the pairings a lot more. And by that I mean you can take your like my daughter out on a day trip and the two boys can stay At home with my husband, because there’s more of you, you can take time out to spend different kind of combinations as a family is really nice. Yeah, it really nice.
Lotte Jeffs: I love that. My personal experience is so it’s just so small like such a small family just it was just me my mom and my dad, I just, I don’t know how I I did it like I find it so reassuring speaking to you stew about it because I feel like you have such an incredible just attitude and sense of resilience and like positivity and just like yeah, we can do it. It’s fine. It’s just one more thing. Like if you barfing them, you’re bothering to already stick another one and it’s fine. And for me, like that’s so lovely to hear. Because I think sometimes in your head you can kind of build things up to being impossible, when actually, they’re not. Like I mean if you think about it, if someone said to us Like this time, last year, in a year’s time, you’re all going to be on lockdown. You’re not going to be able to leave your houses except to go and do exercise. You’re not going to be working from home, we’ll be like, well, we can’t do that. That’s impossible. That’s impossible. But you know what, when you’re in it, you just do it, don’t you? And I think that I found that really inspiring from talking to you say, thank you so much for being so honest about your experience in that respect.
Stu Oakley: Thank you. And, yeah, I mean, we are
Stu Oakley: We just do people just do as they can. And I think as you say, That’s what’s being shown so much at the moment.
Lotte Jeffs: Sweet. And what about you and your husband? And how have your roles with the kids changed? I guess, throughout throughout parenting since first, bringing your children home to now like, do you feel that you had different roles first, and are they shifting and changing? Are they quite fixed?
Stu Oakley: I don’t think my husband and I have ever had defined roles in our parenting, which again goes into what I feel is so wonderful as a gay parent that we didn’t have in bill gender stereotypes. We both cook the dinner we both clean. We both do say we both do DIY, but that’s a complete and utter lie. And actually, if I was to never get out
Stu Oakley: John would be mortified if he ever knew I was saying that. And we do share the care load for them. You know, if a nappy needs changing, it’s just whoever’s closest, so Lottie, you’re not off the hook. I have some I have some questions for you. Are you ready? Yes. So I just want to take it back slightly. So in our first episode, we talked a lot about the steps there. You and your wife took to conceive your daughter fi UI. And we talked about, you know, the different journey that you went on through that process and the experiences with finding the donor, etc. But
Stu Oakley: I just wanted to ask you generally what happened next? In terms of, you know, the question is your wife then was pregnant for nine months. And then yeah, your daughter came into the world. And how was it for you during that time as the other mother Do you remember particularly how you were feeling during that time?
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, I do. And I think this is a really nice thing to talk about actually. And, and hopefully it will resonate to any potential other mothers out there or current other mothers whose partner is pregnant or will hopefully one day be pregnant is what that experience of the pregnancy is like if you’re not physically pregnant. I loved it. It was beautiful. I, I really loved watching the bumper grow. I had a little ultrasound of my daughter in a frame by my bed that I would just stare at and kind of put my hand on my wife’s Tommy and like feel like kicking. And it was this incredible, like mind blowing and beautiful. And I just felt so so, so involved it never felt like her thing. It just felt like both of our things. It just so happened that it was happening inside her body, but it was still equally emotionally intellectually on every other level. So much money. And I think that would be a great piece of advice to people thinking about becoming the non biological mother of a child is is to just trust that that experience will be so so wonderful and special for you and I don’t think you’ll ever feel like you’re missing out because you’re, you’re in it. I mean, yeah, it’s hard when, you know, my wife wasn’t very well for a few months in the early stages, and that was hard to see her as suffering. But she got through it, and then the pregnancy was great. And each day just kind of brings you closer and closer to the baby. And we were tracking on this app that tells you what size fruit is every week. So it would go from like a raisins rape to her. I don’t know what it was at the end like a pineapple or something hideous. But you just you’re so invested in it. And it’s such a lovely experience. And I was reading all the books and you know, just really kind of getting my head into it. In the same way that she was, I guess, except my body wasn’t changing my mind was and it was funny being at work and sort of saying I’m expecting a baby in three months and people just like look you Give me like, oh, and then I’d always be like, I’d wait a beat just to like, for comedic comedic effect. And then I’d be like, yeah, my wife’s carrying. But yeah, that was the funny thing of sort of talking about expecting a baby as a woman, and not looking pregnant at all. I did quite like messing with people’s heads when they talked to me about it. But yeah, in the end, I was always like, quite straight, upfront,
Stu Oakley: And honest about what was going on. As soon as I could be fairly, it was something you wanted to shout about quite a bit. Having that situation where you you were you were pregnant. With with your wife, you were expecting a baby? Yeah, obviously, as you say, it wasn’t showing. So you might not be treated in the same way by say maybe people in different settings or things like that, like not saying that. Pregnant women should be treated any differently but I think you expect maybe a question or, or something. Did you feel that? Did you feel that you had to
Lotte Jeffs: I experienced? Yeah, what I experienced when I was working in an advertising agency that was very male dominated and quite sort of alpha and ego driven. I noticed a lot of men coming out of the woodwork as dads and giving me like dad advice. So, I think I kind of fell into the category of of like, Dad, so it would be like drinks, you know, after work and like y’all, yeah, you know, oh, this is what was like for me. And you know, yeah, it’s a bit of a nightmare blow but I felt it was really nice, because actually, these blokes that otherwise I had nothing in common with really, really opened up and we’re like, sweet and vulnerable to me. And it was almost like I was being let into this secret club of, of men don’t normally talk about being dads. But somehow the fact that I was a woman, but I was expected Seeing what they were experiencing with being the partner. I feel like gave them license to sort of talk to me. And it really opened up to me. So that was an interesting experience.
Stu Oakley: That’s really nice. That’s a really nice way of describing it, like being welcomed into the club, as it were.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, totally. And, you know, I don’t want to be there like, well, I’m a mother, I must be treated as a mother, you know, is different being the non biological mother? I don’t think you can claim that it’s the same. Yeah, exactly the same experience as carrying a child. It’s not that that’s okay. Doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t make it any less of a valid experience in the same way being adoptive parents doesn’t make it any less of a valid experience that we shouldn’t hide away from what makes it different. You know, we shouldn’t just try and make it the same. I think it’s okay to lean into the difference and this is something we’ve spoken about in a couple of months. other episodes, you know, lean into that difference in that other nurses and embrace it and enjoy it
Stu Oakley: Celebrate our
Stu Oakley: Different as parents. Right. That’s, that’s amazing. what point did you find out during the pregnancy her gender? Or was that something you only found out at the birth?
Lotte Jeffs: We did. We found out. We’re both inquisitive journalists, and we just had to know. So yeah, we found out and then choosing the name was the next tricky thing. Funnily enough, we kind of, we spent most of the nine months just tossing ideas around. And it wasn’t until quite late in the day that we, we stumbled on a name that just as we were talking about earlier, you know, it just felt right. We had a real gut instinct about it. And then yeah, we just went with it.
Stu Oakley: So how, so when you found out you were having a girl? How did you feel because as LGBT parents, I always find that gender is a really interesting topic and be to women with a girl I’m just interested to know how what your kind of immediate thoughts were.
Lotte Jeffs: I was thrilled. I was really, really pleased. I would have loved a boy as well equally, but there were elements of it as we’ve discussed what would have been quite unknown territory for me and I really knew what I getting into with a girl. At least I think I do the I mean, God knows when she’s a teenager, you know what that will be about, but it felt it just felt really special. And honestly, I was thrilled that it was a girl. However, if we have a boy in future, I would equally be thrilled to have a boy.
Stu Oakley: I mean, as an only child, the feel that you based on your experiences is Is that something you definitely you would like for your daughter to have a sibling.
Lotte Jeffs: I’d really like her to Have a sibling because what’s tough is an only child isn’t when you’re a child, like, that’s great, then you get everybody’s attention. And if you’re lucky, as I was, and you know, you learn how to play by yourself and become really good at Lego, and Solitaire and reading, but what’s hard is when you’re an adult with an adult parent that needs looking after or, you know, just to have a bit of support of someone else to like, talk to you about stuff. that I think would be really great. And the idea of having a little tribe of people I think, I’m really excited about that possibility. I’d be fine with an only child as well. There are so many benefits to having an only child like, not least financially, but I’d certainly in my life plan manifestation or is a larger family than the one that I grew up in.
Stu Oakley: So I don’t know if everyone knows this. But Lottie, you are an author.
Stu Oakley: Oh, you have written a book.
Stu Oakley: You have written a book. Yeah. So in your book, and please tell us the title of where it’s available.
Lotte Jeffs: Oh, thanks for asking. It’s called How to be a gentle woman the art of soft power in hard times. And it is available in all good, independent book shops, but it’s also on Amazon. So you might want to buy it on Amazon, if you’re listening right now.
Stu Oakley: So in the book, you give some gentle suggestions for being a family and how to deal with family situations. And I just wanted to put it to because when you wrote your book, correct me if I’m wrong, but your daughter was very young, wasn’t she? I mean, she still is young.
Lotte Jeffs: I actually wrote a lot of it before she Bought. So yeah,
Stu Oakley: Life changed. So do you stand by a lot of the things that you you kind of put in the, in the book? And have you found things evolving as your as both your parenting and your relationship with both your wife and also, you know your family has evolved. And
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, I do stand by it and actually yet my daughter was born and I did write that experience into my chapter on family actually. I think I do stand by it all I, I wrote it more coming from my perspective as a daughter, I think, thinking about my parents, now they’re older and how you you know, so I’ve got like, a guide to getting to know your parents of people and how to avoid family confrontations and it’s very much more sort of based on being an adult with your relationship with your parents and your family. But yeah, I have like, in my book, I do a little box out about family planning and sort of suggested talking points, which are things that my wife and I spoke about when we were thinking about having a family that I would like to suggest that straight couples actually have these same kinds of conversations that that before they embark on, on potentially starting a family. So things like why is having a family important to you? What’s your timeline? Picture yourself in 30 years? What will make you happy? What kind of parent Do you imagine you’ll be? What from your own upbringing would you emulate? And what would you reject? And what are your feelings about adoption and fostering even if you are a different sex couple? You know, how do you feel about that? So I think that, that that advice, I think, is good advice for people regardless of their sexuality when they are starting to think about having a family
Stu Oakley: So what kind of things Do you think you’ll be in 30 years time?
Lotte Jeffs: Oh, hopefully a very well kept with a lovely daughter who looks after me in the way that I look after my mom and takes me on nice little mini breaks and takes me out for dinner and gets me to carrots and phones me every day and is Yeah, looks after me not to sound too needy. But I hope I’m going to be quite chilled and I hope I’m going to not. I’m just going to let her be the person that she wants to be and not try and control her and her future based on what I think she should do or in any way try and live vicariously through her. I want her to feel happy and secure in my love for her and to know that I support unconditionally. And I am strong and she doesn’t need to worry about me. I think that would be a really great thing to instantly.
Stu Oakley: Well, that is beautiful. And I’m going to take that as my own personal view of how I want to be as a parent in 30 years as well. And oh, no, I’m stealing yours. I’m taking it.
Stu Oakley: But thank you.
Lotte Jeffs: I mean, let’s face it, we’re both gonna be all we’re gonna be like really needy. And just like, Why haven’t you taken me for lunch at the ivy this week’s Exactly, and who
Stu Oakley: knows what kind of fucking world we’re gonna be living in by that point as well. But well, but hopefully a wonderful, positive, inclusive and just glorious place that we’ll be living in. But for now, yeah,
Lotte Jeffs: I am going to retire going to head off and it’s been wonderful learning I feel I do know you a bit more now I feel I I can actually put some details to Lottie, Jeff’s and, and likewise you it’s been really lovely to learn more about you and your family and also to learn more about the adoption process and to just feel a bit more knowledgeable about it and able to kind of not make any hideous on men fo pars if I meet people that are adopting, and so it’s been really good to open my mind and learn more through talking to you about it. So thank you. I am desperate to sort of watch you crawl back into your big top 10 that you’ve got behind you.
Stu Oakley: But that’s very voyeuristic of you, Lottie, I’m going to turn my camera off and climb into my into my big 10 in my into my big top. But thank you very much for listening. Thank you for listening. Thank you guys and Please do follow us. We are at some families port on Instagram and Twitter. You can find us on Facebook too. And we love you guys and thank you for listening and good night.
Lotte Jeffs: Take care Bye