In the first episode of Season 2 of Some Families, Lotte and Stu catch up on lockdown life and parenting in the pandemic. The hosts are joined by Sandeep from Hong Kong. Sandeep and her wife fell pregnant within a few days of each other and gave birth within hours of one another to two baby boys. She talks about being pregnant at the same time as her wife, the health care system in Hong Kong and being an LGBTQ+ family.
Full transcription below.
Lotte Jeffs: We’re back. It’s some families season two,
Stu Oakley: we are back and we are so happy to be back in your ear holes. And we hope that you have missed us as much as we have missed you.
Lotte Jeffs: And
I’ve missed you Stu,
Stu Oakley: ah, Lottie, I’ve missed you. And to be honest, I still do, because we had a brief reunion for our Christmas special, where I actually got to see you in real life.
I R L and now we’re back on zoom and we’re back here. But never fear. We are just as queer and fun and have lots to talk about. We
Lotte Jeffs: do, we’ve got an amazing season coming up. Actually, we’ve got some incredible stories. And as a journalist, if there’s one thing I love, it’s a good story.
Stu Oakley: We’ve also got some amazing segments coming up as well that we’re going to be introducing some new, fun things.
Um, for example, we’re going to be sharing some problems. Because after all a problem shared is
Lotte Jeffs: a problem that you’ve then burdened the other person with as well. Yes,
Stu Oakley: that is true. But some may say it is a problem half, but
anyway.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah. And they’re not going to be our problems because of which we, we have many and we tend to talk about when we’re not recording, um, on our little WhatsApp group, but.
Your problems Lesnar. Um, we will be answering all of your queries and family dilemma’s and etiquette questions and whatever the heck you want to ask us about,
Stu Oakley: we are here for you. We are effectively your agony gate agony, aunt and uncle. So make sure you drop us a line DMS on socials, email us, um, details are in the show notes.
Because we can’t wait to
Lotte Jeffs: hear from you. We also have a new segment, uh, which is called show and tell. So in this segment, um, we’ll be bringing something to the classroom that is our little, some families forum, and we will be talking about it. So it might be a book, a TV show. Yeah. I film another podcast.
Somebody’s Instagram, something that’s happened in the news or things that positively represent LGBTQ plus families and, or the
Stu Oakley: community at large and every so often, Lottie, I think we may be indulging in a little parents ruin as well. It’s something I wanted to bring to the show because you know, I like a little tipple here now and there and everywhere.
Um, so we’ll be sharing, not mother’s ruin, but a little bit of parents we’re in as well. Every,
Lotte Jeffs: so often our gender neutral alcoholic beverages of choice.
Stu Oakley: So if you want to have a bit of a show and tell,
Lotte Jeffs: or if you want to have one of your
Stu Oakley: problems, then for goodness sake, get in touch with us. And for those that may be listening for the very, very first time, welcome to some families.
We are the LGBTQ plus parenting podcast for queer families everywhere. So welcome. And
Lotte Jeffs: also for interested straight SIS or how, or else you might identify that isn’t queer people as well. I think that their season has got so much for everyone and that you can’t help, but be interested in these brilliant stories that we’ll be sharing with you their seasons.
So I’d like to extend a special welcome to our heterosexual listeners. Hello. So I am Nazi Jeffs. I am a other mother too. Uh, Very rambunctious two and a half year old girl, my wife was pregnant and gave birth and she, we did our UI and it worked first bloody time for her. She’s so unusual, but, um, miraculous and wonderful.
And we live together in London and I’m a journalist and a writer and now a podcaster.
Stu Oakley: So my name is Stu Oakley. For those that don’t know me, I am a gay queer dad. I am married to my husband, John, and we have three beautiful children via adoption. And that listener is pretty much all you need to know about me.
Lotte Jeffs: Quick update from the Oakley household. How have you been over the last six months to a year?
Stu Oakley: Wow.
Well, listener, there is some bit of news I wanted to share. And Lottie, I’m going to show you something that I got in the post. Yeah.
Lotte Jeffs: Stu was holding up an adoption order.
Ah, it
Lotte Jeffs: came through good boy is now officially an Oakley after waiting for.
God, it felt like a lifetime, especially over the last year in lockdown. Um, it finally happened long delayed, um, court date was pushed back multiple times, but it finally happened and he is now officially an Oakley, which we are so happy with. Yes,
Lotte Jeffs: I’m so happy for you. That must feel so nice to just have that peace of mind and security.
Stu Oakley:It really, is it really? Oh, it’s just, it’s just a way off of our mind, really, because even though we knew things were going in the way that we knew they were going to go, not having the adoption order and not having it official does add just an element of stress and also, you know, constant social, you know, social work visit.
You know, having to do things medically that you don’t normally have to do unless you’re looking after it looked after child. So just it’s, it’s a huge weight off of our mind. And yeah, it was just really lovely and being locked down, we couldn’t really celebrate. So we, uh, but we did celebrate by opening a big bottle of champagne and having a McDonald’s.
I mean, if
Lotte Jeffs: Oh I remember seeing your instagran picture, that looks like. The dream. Um, I was just, how
Stu Oakley: are you, how are you?
Lotte Jeffs: I just have one follow-up question for you. So once you have adopted and you’ve got your adoption order, how much do you have visits from social workers? Do they remain in your life throughout the whole.
Stu Oakley: None, which is great, but also, uh, they are always there if you want support. So whilst they’re not there really to check up on you, I suppose, in a way anymore, they are there. If you need support and they’re there, if you need to get, especially through the agency that we went through, you know, they offer seminars, training courses, they’re doing some stuff with kids in lockdown that you can take part in therapeutic play, but so much support that is always there.
So, yeah. The out of light in the sense of you invite them in, should you need to, and should you bond?
Lotte Jeffs: Got it. Okay. That sounds
Stu Oakley: good. And how have you, how has everything been? How have you been coping in
Lotte Jeffs: lockdown? I’ve been doing okay. I mean, our daughter is of an age where we don’t need to be homeschooling her.
We just need to be taking care of her every day. So that’s a relief. Um, I’ve, since we last met, got made redundant from one job. Got another job. So I’m back at Elle magazine now. Yeah. Um, just doing some maternity cover actually, or as I like to call it, parental leave, cover. Um, nice to as feet you said it to there.
So that’s really good, fun, and really, really enjoying it and enjoying having some structure in my days again, and doing something that I’m absolutely passionate about and love and the team we’re all very, um, Open-minded and diverse and interesting and cool. And I’m sure, um, we were doing some interesting stuff together.
Yeah. Um, on the parenting front, I mean, just getting through every day, pretty much really want to have another kid it’s not been working as easily as it did for our fast child. Maybe because we’re a bit older or, um, I dunno, just luck of the draw. Really. So that’s an ongoing conversation and expense as anyone else in my situation will, um, be able to relate to.
But I
Stu Oakley: think that that’s, that that’s, that’s more the norm, you know, that’s something that, you know, we’ve both experienced on this podcast, right? Is that, you know, the getting pregnant on your first attempt or in your first round of things is, is really a rarity and lot of people go through. And so that’s now something you’re experiencing.
Yeah. And
Lotte Jeffs: because my wife got pregnant fast time, it just, um, I didn’t realize what a miracle that was at the time, you know, like we were just like, Oh, great. Yeah. Did that. And that work just one round of IUI then no drugs or anything. So it does kind of give you and I, funnily enough, I know another two lesbian couples, all of whom it worked first time for IUI.
So it does kind of give you a bit of a skewed idea of, um, How easy it is, but it’s, it’s really hard and it is expensive. Um, but you know, it will happen by her or by crook. I’m sure. Cause we’d love to expand our family. And I think if you want something hard enough, you can. Pretty much get it. So
Stu Oakley: you can’t.
And I know, so as you’ve experienced, there’s lots of different options, right? As well,
Lotte Jeffs: it’s opened my mind so much to all of those options and I’m so grateful for that. And also it’s just so nice to feel part of a community of people going through similar things. And I’ve taken a lot of, um, solace and information and advice from just getting in touch with some of the people that we’ve interviewed on the show and sharing experiences.
So.
Stu Oakley: And so here is a chair’s too seasoned to
SANDEEP: behold. We both got pregnant. I mean, I was six months pregnant and still didn’t believe it. We’re in a same-sex couple. We got pregnant through IUI. We were both pregnant. It was amazing being pregnant together. It was just another bonding experience for our relationship.
Lotte Jeffs: I’m excited about our episode today, we’re going to be talking to a brilliant woman called Sandeep. I’m not going to tell you too much now, but trust me when I say you have got to listen to her story.
Stu Oakley: So we’re speaking to Sandeep, who is a lesbian mom of two. They were both pregnant at the same. Time. Yeah.
They both
Lotte Jeffs: had their baby on the same day. Yeah. And deep, welcome to some families. Thank you so much for joining us all the way from Hong Kong this morning. Maybe you could just start. At the very beginning and tell us how you met your lovely partner,
SANDEEP: Jenny, that beginning. Okay. Jenny and I started working together back in 2013.
It was really good friends, just always hanging out together. It was my first serious relationship with a girl, actually. I couldn’t. Talk to my, tell my family about it. So I just thought it was going to be a fling and then just see where it goes. And if it fizzles out, it fizzles out and I mean, we’re three years into the relationship.
It was a long take, a long time to fizzle out. And so then I plucked up the courage to tell my mom, and that was back in 2016. And that was a really, really, really hard. Hard time to tell her, but my mom’s been so supportive now. I think when I first initially told her that I want to settle down with Jenny, I want to have a family with her.
My mom just didn’t get it. And my mom comes from a very traditional background and. Once I showed her that this was something serious and it’s not just the fling. And I’m really wanting to settle down and stop my family. She was moaning a life that she had planned for me, that she had envisioned that I would be getting married to her.
I’d be starting a family with where I’d be living because even Hong Kong was only meant to be a year. And I’ve been here for 10 over the year. She came around to it and she’s accepted Jenny. With all her heart and love and welcome into the family. And then 2018, Jenny and I were like, should we start a family?
I’m like, all right, how do we do that? Because honestly, we had no clue. A couple of people told us about some groups on Facebook and found out that it’s a really long process. And those a fails you could be successful. You could not be finding a donor that was in 2018. And then 2019, we went to a clinic in London.
And we decided to go the natural IUI route and all this time, Jenny was going to get pregnant first. The doctor said, all right, we’ll try IUI, keep tracking your periods. And now look for a donor. That’s the most important thing, Jenny and I are an interracial couple Jenny’s Caucasian and I’m Indian. So we wanted a donor who was half Indian and half Caucasian too.
There’s not that many. We found two people. We found one who was actually half Indian, half white, but. Our second criteria didn’t really meet. We, once someone who studied a lot, went to school, went to university. That was our second criteria. And he hadn’t. And then the donor that we decided his mum is half Indian and half Mexican.
And his father is German. And I was like backwards and forwards. I was like, Oh, but it’s not half Indian. And it’s really important. Like if not going to do it now, it’s going to take another couple of years. So let’s just go for it. So we decided to go with that donor. Shipped his sperm, three vials of it to London still Jenny was going to get pregnant first.
Then I was reading more about how unsuccessful it was for IUI and this Facebook group that I followed a lot. I heard a lot of horror stories on that. And Jenny and I only have one shot a year because that’s where we can fly to London in the summer. That’s when we’ve got the most time. So. Summer comes.
August comes, let’s up our chances. Let’s both of us get pregnant and if we both pregnant, let’s great. If we’re not, then that’s fine. And if one of us great, then we’ll try a couple of years. Lo and behold, we both got pregnant. Whoa. We both got back crazy.
Stu Oakley: What was it like the moment you found out? Like when you both found out you were pregnant,
SANDEEP: Did it believe it, I mean, I was six months pregnant and still didn’t believe it.
I think it just kept fearing the worst. I didn’t want to get my hopes up and have loads of expectations. And if something was to happen, then I’m just going to feel crushed. Did you
Stu Oakley: find out
SANDEEP: at the same time? No. Jenny got inseminated a week before I did then a week later I, um, got inseminated, but 2019 was a crazy year because.
Jenny. And I also got married in the beginning of August, so we were planning the wedding. We’re planning to have a baby and we were planning to move. Wow.
Lotte Jeffs:Thank goodness. 2020 has been so easy and just right, exactly. Sandeep. I’ve got so many questions for you. Go from that amazing story. What took you to Hong Kong in the first place and what do you do
SANDEEP: there?
I just graduated in 20, in 2009. And I’d gone to America to work in New York with disadvantaged children and did that for six months. That’s the first time I’ve like been away from home. I didn’t have a very broad upbringing as very sheltered cause the only traveling I’ve ever experienced is going to India with like, 10 suitcases, but just two people.
That’s my mom just packing so much stuff and we’re going to India. I’m like, okay. I grew up in the West. Let me try and see what I can do past India, closing down my university account, email account. And they were the ones who recommended New York to me. They’re like, Oh, you went to New York. Would you like to try Hong Kong?
I didn’t know anything about Hong Kong. Nothing diddly squat. So I was like, sure, let’s try. It came here for nine months as a fun English teacher that has no responsibilities and duties basically. And I did it for nine months. I loved it so much. And 10 years later, I’ve done a master’s I’ve done a PGD here and I’ve worked my way up.
And, um, uh, a full fledged native English teacher. That’s my full title here
Stu Oakley: being
a teacher in Hong Kong and seeing how the children get on in schools over there was that, was that also a driving force for wanting to raise children in Hong Kong?
SANDEEP: Yeah, that’s a no, to be honest, the education system here is so tough.
And the kids work study so hard, really tough. Being a kid in Hong Kong, as I’ve lived here for longer, I’ve got to get to know other ex-pats with families and learnt that that there’s an international school system that follow the UK system. So kids would not be bogged down so much. There’ll be a lot more freedom if we save up financially to send them to an international school and they can grow up in the city and.
Not have so much school and study pressure. Once I learned that I was like, yeah, we could have a phone. And what’s it.
Lotte Jeffs: Like in terms of being a same sex family, parents with kids in Hong Kong, how have you met other queer families? Do you feel welcomed in, in everywhere you go?
SANDEEP: We haven’t met any other queer families or parents.
I don’t think people know we exist. So it, Jenny and I were to take seven and Rowan out. Nobody would look at us like we were as a same-sex couple with a family. They’ll just think, Oh, there’s two friends. The majority of the time they’ll think. They’re both the kids are Jenny’s and I’m her help. I’ve just learned to deal with it.
And it’s just like, yeah, this is going to happen. Because on the flip side, no one gives us any aggro. No one bothers us. No one’s throwing eggs. No one would would to ever. Make me feel uncomfortable or make Jenny feel uncomfortable. That’s the other side to it really? Have you thought about
Stu Oakley: how that’s going to affect things potentially in the future when, when the boys are at school and is that something you’d like to move closer to that kind of ex-pat community or stay where you are?
I
SANDEEP: think we will still stay here, but we have the luxury. With Hong Kong being so small. So we would send them to international playgroups, kindergartens, and they are a fair way, but we can do it. We can still live here and put them in a taxi with our helpers and they’ll go to play group with other international school kids.
So we could do have that luxury in Hong Kong. Can you
Stu Oakley: talk a little bit more about the decision? Cause obviously that’s a, and you, you’re talking about, it’s a big decision to come back to London. You’re only having one opportunity a year, really to have a go, which I mean, you both were incredibly lucky the first time did you look into IUI and donors in Hong Kong
SANDEEP: for us?
London was the only option. We just heard that it was a hard process. The foundations let’s say are not in place. For an LGBT family to start a family here, we could have done it, but it would have taken maybe double the time. Whereas when we did it in London from our first appointment in January, 2019 to and semination in August of eight months, And it was all done and dusted.
We wanted the customer service that he provides. I want my hand held and I want those bedside manners and I want to be told, Hey, it’s great. Whereas here they are just getting their work done. They’ve got no time to like, have a chat with you. Talk to you about anything. I suppose we’ve been spoiled by how great the service we get from our NHS.
And how nice the doctors or nurses are that we wanted something like that. We want to, someone to get our situation, to be honest. And London was our option. So did you have the babies in London? I had the babies here. We got pregnant and we’re like, okay, we are gonna deliver in a public hospital and you do have to pay for the public system here, but it’s, it’s not extortion at all.
So we had three appointments. And when you register there, They don’t tell you anything. A week later, Jenny went to register at the public hospital. I said, Jenny, don’t leave until they tell you what these three appointments about. One was our 12 week scan. So they’ll check baby. The second one was a breastfeeding seminar and the third one, I forgot what that was about.
So if we were to go through the public system, you would only have one scan at 12 weeks and that’s it. So we were doing it. And as Jenny, I don’t know, I feel a bit uncomfortable going to the public hospital because they kept asking about our husband. They were like, okay, we’re registering. Can we have your husband’s passport or ID card?
And we were like, Oh no, we don’t really, we don’t want to give that. And then she, then they.
Lotte Jeffs: They said you didn’t even say you wouldn’t have
SANDEEP: said that you were no, because we were, I think we were scared that they would, there might be some problems because we did it through IUI and we just didn’t want to rock the boat.
We were just like, let’s just give them the information that they need, nothing extra. So they asked me, I’m like, Oh no, um, I just kind of like brushed it over the, I know we don’t want to give the, uh, my husband’s details though. I’d say that. And she was like, okay, uh, do you want this baby? And I’m like, yes.
They’re like, but you don’t want your husband to no, no, no. And then that, they were just like, Oh, okay. And she was probably thinking, maybe they think you had an affair and this baby is not your husband. Then I went to the breastfeeding seminar and they just shove breastfeeding down your throat. And they’re very big on it.
Here you are a demon, if you do not breastfeed your child. And that kind of made me feel a bit icky. I was like, If I do or don’t want to breastfeed, that’s my choice. And the hospital just has these posters everywhere, where it’s like, man helping wife with breastfeeding, and then man gets an applause cause he helped his wife.
And then it’s like, dad’s make sure you support your wives when they’re breastfeeding and do some of the household chores one, why are we telling the men to do this? And why are they getting around to of positive? Just doing it. They should just do it anyway. So we made the decision. Once Corona virus hit here in January, we’re like, okay, we are not going to give birth in the public hospital, but let’s go to the private hospital route.
So we did the private hospital room and because we did the private hospital route, we were able to have our babies on the same day.
Stu Oakley:Wow. That’s
Lotte Jeffs: incredible. So was that plan, did you both kind of plan as a C-section on the same day?
SANDEEP: So we got our scans and we checked Seren seven was given birth by Jenny and he was literally off the scale.
They couldn’t wait him past four kilos. And so our doctor recommended Jenny have a C-section because he had a big head as well. I don’t want to have a C-section if I don’t have to, I’d rather have a natural labor. So our doctor at the private hospital was like, we can do that. How about. We wait until Jenny’s 39 weeks pregnant and you’re 38.
And then we can book you in on the C-section and induce you the night before Jenny don’t go into labor now. So for 10 days, we didn’t need that. The house, we just didn’t move. We had our own little lockdown. We checked into the hospital on the 26th of April. We’ve got our scans done at midnight. They put us something in my cervix.
To start my labor. Then I went to sleep. Then I woke up in the morning. They checked how much I was dilated on the 27th. Jenny was booked for us as area and at 3:00 PM and then 12 o’clock noon. They broke my waters. And so I was just waiting to basically get dilated and the same doctor, she helped Jenny do her C-section at 4:00 PM and then at five 30.
I gave birth to Rohan. I had a quick delivery. U S he was a great, great little guy. Oh, that’s some
Stu Oakley: serious scheduling going on there. I, uh,
Lotte Jeffs: yes, in the private hospital, were they more accommodating to your family? They did. And
SANDEEP: they did. We, um, We spoke to the doctor. The first appointment we had, that was, that was a bit hard.
Cause I had to make an appointment for Jenny and me and the lady on the phone was a whitening, two appointments for two people. And then to that, that was the only obstacle that I had, the first appointment that I had to make there. But once I said, Oh, we’re both pregnant and we both want to do it. And they didn’t ask any more questions.
We saw our doctor in a same-sex couple. We got pregnant through IUI. We were both pregnant. Help us out that short. No problem. And she didn’t even take in like a breath or like bat her eyes or anything. It was nothing. It was just like, this is just information being given to me and the nurses were great.
So when we checked in on the 26th of April, the nurses address Jenny, as my friend saying, Oh, your friends in the other room. And I politely correct them. And then the four, five days we were at the hospital, they referred to us as. As Oh, your wife is in this room or your wife’s gone here. And that was really nice.
Yeah. That’s nice.
Lotte Jeffs: I want to ask you about the experience of being pregnant together, but just while we’re talking about the birth, um, were you able to kind of support each other during. The bath as it was.
SANDEEP: So, because I, at noon, Jenny C-section was scanned at a scheduled at 3:00 PM. So for three hours you could stay with me.
I couldn’t go anywhere. So she stayed with me when I got my epidural done, and then we didn’t see each other until, because we had a room together. That was the other thing. Like we just had a private room, just me and her. And so I got back into the room at like half six. An hour later. Okay.
Lotte Jeffs: Right. And so just to kind of backtrack a bit, the experience of being pregnant.
Oh, that’s so interesting that you were both pregnant at the same time. How did that kind of work for you guys? Were you, were you both sort of similarly pregnant? Did you have very different experiences? Was one of you more needy than the other? How were you able to support each other and. Have your own experience being
SANDEEP: pregnant as well.
It was amazing being pregnant together. It was the best, absolute best we had similar pregnancies in the beginning. We both didn’t suffer any morning sickness. We didn’t have. Swelling, the pains, none of that. We were not needy. We were just our normal selves. It couldn’t be like, Oh, can you go get me a cup of tea or pregnant?
Or when he, we couldn’t use that line on each other. It was honestly, it was the best I would do it again. Jenny doesn’t wanna have any more kids. I would just be pregnant again, just to have that second trimester and to be pregnant with her because. It was just another bonding experience for our relationship.
If I ever got pregnant again, I had great pregnancy. I love being pregnant. It was just so nice. Yeah.
Stu Oakley: And like you say, what a, what a wonderful bonding experience as well. I’ve never heard of, of going through it at the, exactly the same time. Um,
Lotte Jeffs: you’re the first person I’ve met. I’m surprised in a way, I suppose the thing put.
Putting people off is just thinking it’s going to be a lot logistically, emotionally, all of those things that you’re kind of doubling that, but in a way it does make it makes perfect sense. One thing I was wondering about was this sort of emotional side of it, when you were pregnant of like, As I know when my wife was pregnant, I was so invested in, in her and that and our child growing in her.
And that was like the real focus. Did you feel that when you, because you were both pregnant, it made you so focused just on your self and your growing bump, that it was harder to connect with the, with the growing child and your partner?
SANDEEP: Yeah, I think we. It has a bit of a tough one. I think it was, we were of course invested in the other, but emotionally it was, it was okay.
It wasn’t nothing like I, if not, not like I don’t feel anything for Sarah that was, who was carried by Jenny. It was just, um, once he came into the world and I saw him and I held him, that’s when my bond started, but we were pregnant. I didn’t. I did connect with him that he’s my son, but then I also had another one growing in me.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah. It’s a, yeah, it does make sense. And what about now with the, with the babies, do you feel, and I think I, I anticipate what your answer to this is going to be, but do you feel that that, that one’s mine and that one’s mine? Or are you just one big family?
SANDEEP: We did in the beginning, it was not like, Oh, his mind is yours.
We just naturally gravitated. Like when one was crying, it was just subconsciously. I would go, if Rohan was crying, I’d go pick him up. And then Sarah was crying. Jenny would go so consciously. And then we had to have a talk. I mean like, Hey, I think we’re, we’re focusing too much on the one that we gave birth to let’s make a conscious effort that was in the beginning, the first three months.
Um, and we were just in a, we were. I dunno, it was a very dark time, I suppose, three months of a very dark time for us. So in order for us to be able to have that conversation on top of, with everything else, that’s going on credit to us, because we like okay with everything else that we’re also focusing on not being able to physically bond with Sarah and Jenny’s not being.
Able to physically book bond with Rohan. But the good thing is we were both able to breastfeed. So when I was breastfeeding and then I was able to bond more with him and I felt more of attachment as days gone on. And then when Jenny was able to breastfeed Rohan and
Lotte Jeffs: that’s amazing, of course, I hadn’t even considered that, but yeah, how brilliant God your rebate, but this might be a good idea now.
Stu Oakley: It’s really beautiful. And just to clarify as well, Sandeep, was it quite dark time because of the Corona virus pandemic and being in lockdown over in Hong
SANDEEP: Kong? Wasn’t no, the virus here, it was bad. Cause we, the worst time for us was January and February. And then. Because in 2003 saws hit Hong Kong. And then since 2003, everyone has been super vigilant about hand sanitizing wearing mask when you’re sick.
So it wasn’t because of that, I think our hormones were just everywhere. I am a very emotional person and it just, you just don’t know, you just get dumped with loads of hormones and it just. Go. And we both were just crying all the time. My mum was going to visit in may and then my father-in-law was going to visit in June.
And we were really counting on them to come because it’s just Jenny and I raising two kids.
Stu Oakley: And so the lines that you say that you’ve both been to hallmates that you’re both experiencing at the same time and not having somebody else, who’s not gone through that hormonal experience. Yeah, we
SANDEEP: struggled the first week we got back from the hospital.
We struggled so much to do it, that we had to hire. We hired a night nanny to come, who to help us at night. We just couldn’t physically do it. It was just emotionally and physically. Really really tough. And we’re so lucky that we’ve got the resources that we were able to hire a night nanny and she was able to come in and help us out during the nights.
And that was just a blessing, an absolute blessing because it enabled us to be able to enjoy our babies more because it got to a point, honestly, it was like, did we make the right decision? Was, was this right for us to do it? Thankfully, um, we’re seven months in and it was, it was totally the right decision.
Lotte Jeffs: Yeah, I think it’s so, so good that you recognize that you needed help. I feel like so often parents just shoulder it all and just think that you’ve just got to power through and it’s some sort of failure if you, if you ask for help and, or like a test just it’s destructive. Yeah, exactly. Like it’s a test that you’ve got to pass, but it’s not just got to yeah.
Take what you need. And when you hired the night nanny, was it, that’s something that you had to kind of consider having somebody in your home, such an intimate time? How could you be sure that that person was going to appreciate your family
dynamic?
SANDEEP: Yeah, we went, so we looked at a couple of, uh, nanny services and we found this one that was run by an Australian guy and we wanted a Western touch.
We wanted someone that understands our needs a little bit more and. We didn’t mind somebody coming in to our
space.
Lotte Jeffs: And so, and just sort of talking a bit about your experience of being out and about with the babies now in Hong Kong, are there any anecdotes you can share with us?
SANDEEP: So
something that’s actually irking me right now is when we go out, we, we just walk around our neighborhood.
Um, And we take the prime with it. So there’s a double prem. So automatically everybody assumes that they’re twins. And in the beginning we just said yes to brush it off. But, um, I don’t know this past couple of weeks now it’s niggling at me because they’re not twins. And I don’t know what my answer is to them when they say twins, because the short answer is just yes.
And just get on with it. But I feel like I’m, um, I feel like I’m doing myself a disservice of not telling them the truth, because I could like not blow their minds for lack of a better word, but I could just like, teach them like, Oh, well they’re not twins. They’re brothers. We both carried, we married and then maybe they’ll remember that.
And they will go on in that day and be like, Oh, I met two moms today and they’ve got two kids. I’m not able to teach them that when I’m saying yes to their twins, that’s been irking me and that’s something that’s bothering me and I’m trying to like figure out
Lotte Jeffs: Hmm. Something
that a lot of data relate to those moments.
I know Stu and I we’ve had those moments where you’re like, is this the moment that I. Explain the nuances of my family or is this just the time that I say ha ha yes, friends. Fine. But I do think, I do think that as the kids get older and Stu maybe has more experience of this with slightly older kids, is that then when the kids can understand and somebody’s saying something that’s not true about their family, then I feel like you really have a
Stu Oakley: responsibility, right?
Yeah. When you get, you know, when you get somebody asking about. You know, always mommy at home, or, you know, as mummy, mummy is having a day off where daddy’s taking you out. It’s it’s that moment where you can see my five-year-old looking at me and you’re like, right, okay. I need to explain this in a way that not only that she can understand, but also how I’m educating this person and telling them the truth and be honest about our family.
It’s interesting. It’s really it. And it’s those moments when you least expect it when you’re out, you’re not thinking about it because you’re not spending every single minute of every day thinking I am a queer parent and this is our dynamic. You’re just getting on being a parent. So it kind of hits you at the time when you least expect it, which is, I think when you then are sometimes a bit flummoxed, but I can understand how, you know.
It’s also being empathetic to our space, the person that’s asking. Right. Because I suppose for them seeing two, two gorgeous little boys in a double buggy together would assume that they are twins and there’s no, I suppose malicious reason for that.
SANDEEP: Yeah. Like I said, where we live is predominantly very Chinese.
So there’s not that many ex-pats foreigners here. So it’s. There’s also people saying twins in Cantonese and my Cantonese is not that good yet to be able to say, no, they are two brothers there. They are brothers. I’m trying to brush up on that here, where we live is just so excited to see them and to see two foreigners and they just say twins and then just walk away.
And I don’t have enough time to like, be like, no, no, no.
Right.
Stu Oakley:Obviously pandemic and traveling and coronavirus aside. Um, I know you talked earlier when we were talking to you about your, your story, about how you used to travel to India a lot. Have you got plans to, to hopefully when travel is back home, do you plan to take the boys to India and, and, and have you anticipated what extended family’s point of view would be, et cetera?
SANDEEP: That’s a good question. Yes. I do want to take them to India. I love it. I absolutely loved going. I loved visiting and love visiting my mom’s family there. However, it will be hard because my mum, how, how she’s explained my relationship with Jenny to her brothers and sisters is we are with literally a translation from Punjabi is.
They’re friends that are each other’s supporters. So whenever I talked to my cousins in England, in India, they’re like, Oh, how’s your friend doing? That’s how they address us.
Lotte Jeffs: The advice be to women, listening, contemplating, um, doing what you did and, and having babies at the same time,
SANDEEP: do it, do it, do it, do it, do it.
Don’t stress over finding a donor. And it was just a no point, no point. I mean, the donor has some Indian, some Caucasian, whatever these babies are ours. And it depends what kind of personality you have in your, your partner has, can you do it? Like we are so opposite and it was this great decision because we’re not very similar at all.
And you all relationship or just go from one level to another, and I’m sure you guys know being with your partners, being parents, it just takes you. Somewhere else and you just elevate and you just become so strong your bond. And I love it. I do it again. We’ve got one more vial of sperm lad. I’m telling Jenny, I was like, let’s have a third one.
Not having, it sounds
Stu Oakley: like you might be on your own this time.
SANDEEP: Yeah. Yeah. Thank
Stu Oakley: you so
Lotte Jeffs: much then deep and having with your family
Stu Oakley: in Hong
SANDEEP: kong. Welcome guys.
Stu Oakley: Thank you so much to Sandy for joining us on today’s episode and thank you listener for well listening. If you’d
Lotte Jeffs: like to get in touch with us. Then you can send us a DM on social media. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at some families’ pod, or you can write us an email if you’ve got your own story to tell us or something lengthy that you’d like to share with us.
Some families@storyhunter.co.uk.
Stu Oakley: We also have a website www adopt some families, pod.com, where you can find. All transcripts and all our past episodes as well.
Lotte Jeffs: We’ll be next week. So until then, goodbye from
Lotte Jeffs: me.
Stu Oakley: Goodbye.
Lotte Jeffs: This episode was produced and edited by Hattie Moir.
Stu Oakley: Some Families is a StoryHunter production.