This week Stu shares some very exciting life changing family news and then Lotte and Stu catch up with Charlie Condou, actor and Dad of two. Charlie’s family is made up of Charlie, his husband Cameron and Catherine their children’s biological Mum. Charlie talks about the decision to co-parent, how it works and why being a gay parent is no different to being a straight parent.
Full transcription below.
Charlie: I had always wanted to be a dad. I knew that it was going to be slightly more complicated for me as a gay man, but, um, I didn’t think that it would, my sexuality would stop me. So it’s one of the reasons that I wanted to write the column because I wanted to be able to talk about it and say, this is a possibility, this is something that.
We can do, you know, gay people can have children. Co-parenting made sense to me because it seemed like one of the few options that was available, we had one of those conversations where she said, yeah, you know, if I, if I hit 40 and I’m still single, we should talk about it. Seriously. I felt a little bit like we were stepping into the unknown.
Um, and it it’s all been fine. People often say, Oh, your kids have got two dads and one mum. But I think of it more as three parents. You know, kids are not born prejudice. It’s learned behavior. They are naturally accepting children. Some families have a mum, a dad. I know Woah.
Stu: So welcome to Some Families. Hello, Lotte.
Lotte: Hello, Stu. Hello.
Stu: Today we have a very special guest on the show. Yeah, he’s off the tele tele. He’s famous for come up in the world. My mum’s going to be very excited.
We have Charlie Conde.
Lotte: That’s right. And he’s going to be talking to us about his co-parenting arrangement that he has with, um, a close female friend here. He had a baby with and his husband. Um, and interestingly, Charlie was one of the first people to really do what we’re doing with this podcast, which is.
Um, talk openly about, um, the dynamics of queer parenting, because he had a column that was in the guardian.
Stu: Yeah. I think there was in the guardian about 10 years ago. Now when no one else was really talking about queer families at all. So he. He paved the way for you? Me and everyone guys.
Lotte: But first, before we welcome Charlie into the studio.
Let’s have a little, a little glass of wine and a little chat. What’s happened to you this week. He’d been teasing me all week that you’ve got a good little anecdote up your sleeve, and I want to hear it.
Stu: So, so we’ve been doing a little bit of recording. We’ve been laying a few things down. I am now going to be a father of three.
Lotte: No, no, no way. Oh, I’ve got all goose bumpy.
Stu: Yeah. I’m very excited.
Lotte: She’s having a baby.
Stu: I, am,
Lotte: that’s amazing and you can drink wine
Stu: and having a baby. It’s amazing.
Lotte: Tell me, tell me everything.
Stu: Um, we, when we adopted our son and daughter, we were always briefed as it were by all the social work team that the birth mother may end up having more children.
And it was something we were always really open to and something we said that we would definitely consider whilst we couldn’t give an answer. And whilst we very much didn’t think it would happen as quickly as it has. And it is very common in sibling groups through adoption. Um, not through everyone and again, not to generalize, but it is very common to have very large sibling groups often.
So we’re always aware that this could be in the, in the future rewind two weeks ago, three weeks ago, we got an email from our social worker, from our old agency. And it was one of those emails. I, I opened my email up on a Tuesday morning and I was, and the subject line was news. My heart just stopped because I knew, I knew that a sibling was, had been born.
I just knew it. Um, my husband’s reaction was immediately that the birth mother had actually passed away. Cause that’s been a very real, very real thing that we’ve. Been aware of that can happen and it’s, and again, sadly, very common in various situations involved with adoption, but I was right. It was another sibling and the email kind of said a sibling has been born.
I’d love to discuss with you. I’m in meetings til two let’s discuss off the bat. Wow.
Lotte: It’s so funny that it’s such a life-changing piece of news. And then somehow with adoption, everything gets so like yeah. Paper pushy.
Stu: Yeah. And I was in that moment and I may go into it at a later stage, but we’re, we’re in a very, it’s, it’s, it’s completely different to when we adopted our, our first, the, the process has been completely different so far.
And I must say also quite frustrating. Um, so our new son, so it’s a boy.
Lotte: Wow. So you’ve been approved and no.
Stu: Okay. So our new son, as of now, as of this moment, potentially our son, um, although it’s, they always liked to try and keep sibling groups together as much as they can. So whilst we don’t have anything official, anything on paper, anything locked in.
It’s very much the viewpoint that he, he will be coming to us and we want him, we desperately want him. Um, and he’s, he’s already five months old. Why, and they haven’t told you, this is the, this has been part of the issue. So whilst I, you know, I’ve talked a lot about the positives of adoption and you know, the system, and actually it can be quicker for a lot of people.
And at the end of the day, it’s a struggling system. It’s a really struggling system with a lot of kids. And unfortunately I. You know, his story has been a little bit lost in the, in, in, amongst all the paper pushing and, and somewhere along the line, when it was alerted to the authorities that we were in existence and his older siblings were in existence back when he was born, it took.
Four and a half months to, to let us, so now we’re in this kind of backward situation where we’re working on getting him home as, as quickly as possible. So it’s all been a bit crazy. Yeah. I
Lotte: love the language that you use though, to talk about it. Like he’s your son and getting him home. Like it feels, so it feels so right.
And so natural and, and that. You are the parents that he deserves. I mean, I can’t imagine why it won’t work out, but I’m sure until you have him in your arms,
Stu: you know, I’ve tried to not to get too emotional about it, but the fact that he has been in foster care for five months when he could have been with us, it’s been,
Lotte: it’s insane.
Like, do you have to really be careful with how you’re interacting with the authorities
Stu: they do, and this is why, but this is why it’s completely different to when we first started off as two. In that. And again, because that was also quite plain sailing. So we didn’t actually have to really like, take that approach.
But in this case, we’re now being much more like forthright about things and really getting our point across and, and things are still moving slowly and much slower than, then we would like. And. So therefore we, we are going all guns blazing, really, because it is a completely different situation. I think when we adopted our first two, we kind of were flirting and, you know, really wants to impress everyone and show that we could be the best parents and that we’ve done all this training and that we can offer these kids this life and this amazing time. Now we’ve got 15 months plus of showing that we can talk to these kids and we are one family and, and we, not that we’ve nailed it because I don’t think any parents ever nailed it.
And we’ve got a long journey ahead, but yeah. I would say we’ve done pretty bloody well. Yeah. And this gorgeous little boy is, is still in foster care. And I I’d imagine we’ve not met them. We will meet them, but I’d imagine his foster parents are a beautiful people and they’re wonderful, but he’s still in foster care.
He’s still being looked after and he’s still separated from his brother and sister who he see spending.
Lotte: Have you told, um, your son and daughter about him
Stu: yet? Not yet. We’ve tested the waters.
Lotte: How did you do that?
Just, you know, would you, you know, what do you think, would you like her? Would you like a baby brother?
depends on their mood. So everything starts changing
Lotte: and how crazy to not have nine months to get your head
Stu: around it, or if he comes to move in with us on the date, but he’s supposed to, it would have been six weeks. Between knowing that he will be knowing he even existed. And then coming I’m like Sonia for me standards, but she, she had it worse, but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really hard.
Um, but it’s wonderful at the same time.
Lotte: Um, so happy for you guys. It’s amazing news. And I just think you are so awesome to just be like taking it in your stride and not feeling like, I mean, obviously it’s a stressful time, but you’re not. By all accounts like overwhelmed by it, or I have my moments, you know, it’s a good thing.
You’re happy about it. And that’s so
Stu: no, we are happy. We are. I mean, why will
Lotte: it end? What if the mother has more children and more children? We
Stu: do have a choice. It’d be very, could easily say we, we, he, you know, it’s not something that we want to move forward with, but. We know in our hearts, we want him, we it’s going to be a struggle financially, logistically, mentally everything, but it’s not impossible.
And I think we’ll never look back. And when he’s with us, it will just, it will just change. I think the social workers are very much like she will have a fourth. They’re pretty certain she will. She’s young enough to the situation she’s in. So. I think we just prepared for that. It’s the same as, yeah, we were before, when we were asked, when we had our first two w and we never thought it would actually happen and then something it did.
And so we have to go along in the same vein because it may never happen. We may get a call one day that sadly she has. Passed on or, or something else or thought to herself, you know, she’s, she’s made a new life for herself. There could be various different options, but she could have a fourth. And I think we’re just reviewing it at the time.
Lotte: Oh, that is just such amazing news. And I’m so, so happy for you guys. It’s incredible. And I’m so thrilled to have been on this amazing journey with you in this
Stu: I’m along at a wonderful moment, I can actually be able to speak about it and, and have a kind of therapy session.
Lotte: and now we are here with Charlie Condou, who you might recognise from his long standing career as a TV actor. Um, you have been in some iconic soaps coronation street. Um, tell us a little bit about your career history just before we crack on and talking about your parents. Yeah.
Charlie: My career history has been a bit weird, I suppose. Um, I started off when I was, when I first left school acting sort of doing a lot of comedy stuff as I did, um, a sketch show called Armstrong, the mellow for a long time, and then shows like.
Gimme, gimme, gimme, and those kinds of things. And I got a call from Corey, uh, and thought, Oh, they do really great kind of comic characters. That will be brilliant. I’d love to do that. And then when I got there, I realised that my character was the normal, sensible, responsible guy. Um, but yeah, so I was, I was in Coronation Street for.
I think getting on for five years, um, and then, and then left actually because of my family, because it was filming up in Manchester and I wasn’t seeing much of the kids and decided that much as you know, my career is important to me. It’s not as important as my family. So I jacked it all in to take jobs that kept me closer to home.
Stu: So tell us a little bit about your family. Um, in a nutshell, like who are you as a unit?
Charlie: Well, I suppose, um, my, my family, because myself and my husband, Cameron, we’ve been together for almost 15 years now. And we have two kids, Georgia. Who’s 10 and Howe, who is eight. Uh, and we co-parent with, um, a straight female friend of ours, Catherine, who lives around the corner and we, and we kind of divide our time with the kids.
So we have them 50 50. Um, and it works pretty well or rather it has done so far.
Lotte: So can you tell us a bit about that initial conversation, um, with your female friend and how that became a reality?
Charlie: Yeah, it was one of those things that I had always wanted to be a dad ever since I was really, really young.
And when I came out at the age of 18, I sort of. Continue to want to be a parent. I knew that it was going to be slightly more complicated for me as a gay man, but, um, I didn’t think that it would, my sexuality would stop me. Um, I never saw it as an obstacle. Just something that would be slightly more complicated, I suppose.
Um, and I, I didn’t really, I mean, you know, I’m 47 now, and this is going back. A while. And so it was a, it was a different landscape then adopting for gay men, certainly for single gay men. As I was, when I started first thinking about it was wasn’t something that happened, IVF wasn’t available to gay people.
Um, certainly surrogacy wasn’t a thing. It was just a very different. World, I suppose that we rent. And so co-parenting made sense to me because it seemed like one of the few options that was available. Um, and I, and I kind of thought, well, Maybe I could have kids with a friend of mine. I don’t ever for a minute thinking that my straight female friends wouldn’t that wouldn’t be their first choice of having kids to do it with a gay friend.
But you know, when you’re young, you don’t, you just think, Oh yeah, somebody love kids with me.
Stu: So had you been, you had been thinking that before Catherine?
Charlie: I’d been thinking about it for a long time and I do always. I’d always had conversations about when I become a dad where, when I’ve got kids, rather than if I’ve got kids, I think it was something that it wasn’t even something that was intentional.
It was just something that I did. It felt like something that was going to happen. And I did start to have that conversation with other, with other friends. Um, And it never felt particularly right until Catherine and I started thinking about it, but we had one of those conversations where she said, yeah, you know, if I, if I hit 40 and I’m still single, we should, you know, talk about it seriously.
Not for a minute. Thinking that, that. Would be the case. And it was something that was so important to her. And I was, I had obviously been, you know, desperate to have kids for some time. So we started to talk about it very seriously. And we talked about how we would do it. We did, we talked for a really long time about every eventuality.
It felt like we wrote, we were both on the same page, kind of morally. In terms of the, the way that we thought about bringing up children politically with a small P you know, all of the stuff seemed to fit. Um, you really close friends. Yeah, definitely. I mean, our friendship has definitely changed over the years
Stu: cause that’s a big, it’s a massive commitment to make to, uh, with someone.
Charlie: It really is.
And you’re stepping into the unknown. It was, it was. I didn’t know anybody that had done this. There was nobody that I could look to, to go well, who, I mean, co-parenting, wasn’t even a word that was just, I was going to try and have kids with a friend of mine. Um, and, and it was really scary. I know. And.
Because we didn’t know, we, you know, you have no idea if you know, you’re going to be messing up the kids or if it’s going to be really awful for them or how it’s going to work, are we doing something really stupid? You know, should we all move in together? Should we not? What’s the right thing of doing it, which is why I think we talked about it so much.
We talked about. Everything. Um, and, and of course by the time we’d started to talk about it, seriously, Cameron and I were together and we’d been together for a couple of years at that point. Um, so it was always going to be. The three of us
Stu: bring him into the conversation.
Charlie: Absolutely. Because there’s no way it would’ve worked.
Otherwise I couldn’t be like, well, me and Catherine going to have kids, but so
Lotte: was that something with Cameron that you bought up, like on your first date? Like how far into the process were you when you met him?
Charlie: Um, we weren’t far into it. I mean, it had been one of those vague, Oh yeah. Let’s have this conversation.
If something, if we get. You know, older and we’re still single or whatever. Um, but by the time I knew quite quickly that Cameron and I were going to be very serious. Um, I don’t remember when I had the first conversation with him to tell him that I wanted to have kids, but it was definitely there from the beginning.
Um, and he was somebody who’s slightly older than me. And I think for his generation, he’d never really. Thought about it. It just wasn’t something that gay men did. That’s one of the reasons that I wanted to write the column, because I wanted to be able to talk about it and say, this is a possibility, this is something that we can do, you know, gay people can have children.
Um, so yeah, so it was, it was something that cam and I kind of had talked about. He knew that I wanted to be kids and he was. Absolutely on board with that. Luckily, because I would have been really awkward.
Lotte: It’d be amazing really, because it’s quite. It’s quite a lot as the other person coming into that to get your head around and to think what’s my role going to be here or these, these my partner, the person I love is about to enter into this incredibly intimate and, um, connecting partnership that doesn’t involve me in the same like biological way.
Charlie: Right? Well, the biological question was always a, a kind of tricky one and I think. It was very different from when we had our daughter, our first child to when we had our son, our second, everything had changed completely because I think we had ideas of how we want it to work, but we didn’t have the benefit of hindsight.
So we didn’t know how it was going to, so, yeah. For example when Georgia was born. I was in the room, but Cameron wasn’t. Um, whereas when Howe was, there was no question that Cameron would be there because he felt very much part of it. And he is an equal parent. I, I kind of people often say, Oh, your kids have got two dads and one mum, but I.
Think of it more as three parents, because our roles all feel very different. We all have very different roles.
Lotte: Can you talk a bit more about that. And like what your different roles on what you’re working on.
Charlie: Sure. I mean, Catherine is mama I’m that? And Cameron is Wawa because they couldn’t say Papa when they were growing up.
So while we’re stuck, but we all have different ways of doing things. We will have different strengths. Um, It’s one of the reasons that I think they’re starting to do a lot more studies into gay parenting now. And one of the things that I think is a benefit and their learning is a benefit is that instead of falling into gender stereotypes, the mother does all the cooking and the emotional stuff.
And they’re looking after. And the dad, you know, does the football and the, you know, the practical stuff, it sort of falls to whoever is better. At those things and whoever is better at the time as well, those, those things can shift.
Stu: Do you find it helps evolve your relationship as well in that you communicate more than maybe say, I mean, it’s hard to compare, but in a sense.
That you will talk to each other about what you can each bring at that point, rather than it just falling into a specific, well,
Charlie: I think it tends to happen naturally. We did all our talking before the kids came and we tried to get everything set. And then of course you realize that when you have kids, nothing is set and you just have to go with it.
And now we sort of just, it happens organically, which I think is better. Um, I think we’re in a really fortunate position in that. Because the kids are with their mum half the week, we get a break and they get a break from us as well. So
Stu: yes.
Charlie: The reason it’s a dream is, is that you never get strung out. You never think, Oh God, I wish I could just get a break.
This is so relentless. This is, it never stops. Um, and you get time together. We get time together. So we will often go away for the weekend or the kids are going to Catherine’s tonight. We’re going to go to the cinema, you know, just things like that. We don’t have to do that. You know, date night or any of those all flu expressions.
We don’t need to do any of that because we get time for ourselves. And Catherine does. Yeah. And the kids like it too. They like going between two houses and they know that when they’re with us or when they’re with their mum, we are kind of focused on them, not in a weird helicopter parenting way, but just that we’re available.
How old
Lotte: were they when you, um, first started changing houses with them?
Charlie: We, when Georgia was born, Katherine moved in with us for first six months. Uh, because we were trying to figure it all out. You know what it’s like when you’ve got a newborn, you don’t have a clue what you’re doing or which way are yeah.
So we were all together, um, and getting up in the middle of the night and all that kind of ridiculous stuff that you do when you don’t really know until Catherine said, this is stupid, doesn’t it? Three of us at four o’clock in the morning while I’m breastfeeding. So then we’d sort of take over during the day so that she could sleep.
And having that extra pair of hands was brilliant, but then after six months, she went back to her house and Georgia started to go between the two households as a straightaway. Um, and the same when our son was born, um, we moved in with her that time and stayed there. Uh, for six months and then, and then did the same thing.
Lotte: It’s really sensible and like good to have started it with them. So young.
Charlie: So I don’t know, some people were saying, or don’t you think that’s a bit young for a child to be away from. There mum. Um, that was interesting. Cause nobody ever said, do you think it’s too young for the baby to be away from their dad?
Lotte: Interesting. Yeah. What would be your tips for other people in a similar, like practical tips for people considering a co-parenting relationship in terms of like moving the kids between houses?
Stu: Like
Charlie: I think it was Catherine that came up with this, this kind of set up that we have, which is she has them on Mondays and Tuesdays.
We have them on Wednesdays and Thursdays and then we alternate each weekend. So that means. For example, my son has piano on a Monday night. That’s her thing she does with him. It’s regular. It’s always, it just makes those things easier. It means that you can have a routine, even though they’re going between two houses, which is something that I think a lot of kids need.
And we had the same thing with it’s a lot about financially, how it was going to work, where are we going to put money into a pot? We had this idea that we would pay money into a bank account, but because they’re with us half and half. You just end up paying for half of things. And if there’s something like, I don’t know, whatever it might be, school dinners or whatever, then we split that, you know, that’s a very simple thing to just Catherine will say, I just paid for this.
So can you give me half the money or I’ve just paid for the swimming lessons? Yeah,
Lotte: I guess just open communication being like
Stu: straightforward. I
Charlie: mean, it’s kind of as if we were, uh, Divorced couple, although obviously we have never been a couple and we get on very well. So you don’t have any of that weird stuff.
A lot more amicable it’s
Stu: yeah.
Lotte: What were some of the, um, biggest criticisms or challenges that you faced from friends and family when you were entering into this, particularly your parents or
Charlie: your mums? Well, our parents were actually fantastic. I think. All of us were really lucky in that respect. They were all really cool about it.
I mean, our parents knew how much we wanted to be parents ourselves. I had some problems, interestingly from my gay male friends, uh, which surprised me because I didn’t think that’s where I’d come across the difficulties. Um, I remember having a conversation with one of my closest gay friends at the time who said.
He just kind of understood what he meant from a political point of view, but he was saying, you know, I feel like you’re trying to kind of a heterosexual stereotype and you’re, you know, we’re different. We are like that. And we make our own rules, which, you know, I suppose I kind of got what he was talking about, but I think I was doing the opposite.
I was saying, yeah, I’m a gay man and we can do this too. You know, we w w we were right back in those days, we were talking about equal marriage. That was already something they were talking about, bringing in civil partnership and Cameron and I were kind of at the forefront of, of, of trying to get equal marriage, um, to pass it because.
It felt like civil partnership was equal, but not quite equal. Um, and so, and it felt like the conversation with was changing with gay people in this country. And we were allowed to get married suddenly, or hopefully that was coming. And we should have been able to have children and families and all of that stuff.
There was no reason for your sexuality to get in the way of that, because I mean, you guys know when you’re doing homework with your kids or playing football or drawing or changing nappies or whatever it is, the last thing you’re thinking about you. So your fancy, um, it’s just not part of the parenting experience really?
To my mind. Yeah.
Lotte: Yes, it’s true. I do think that there are some things. There is certainly for me, like there have been times where I have been aware of my sexuality, for example, in a taxi. With my wife and our kid and the taxi driver assumes that my wife who’s actually the biological mum is the nanny and starts talking to her like, she’s the nanny.
And it’s that moment of, do we say something here?
Charlie: Well, nowadays Elton and David and Ricky Martin and Patrick Harris and everyone, you know, all the gays are doing it now, but I was the first, no, I wasn’t the first, but I did. I kind of was the first in this country to talk about it publicly. I mean, I don’t, I can’t remember when the column in the guardian was, but it was before how it was born.
So we’re talking maybe nine years ago. Um, I mean, I think I kind of wanted to talk about it for that very reason in it. I wanted, I wanted to be that person that showed that it was a possibility, but also I wanted people to know that apart from legit physical differences, parenting for gay people is, is, is justice.
Mundane and boring as it is straight people.
Lotte: How did you kind of give them the language or the tools to talk about their family, with their friends at school and with their teachers?
Charlie: Cam and I are quite involved in the school, so we know the children anyway and have done since they were very small. So they’re just used to us.
You know, kids are not. Born prejudice. It’s learned behavior. They are naturally accepting children. I think it’s. And so if you are there and, and it’s normalized, I suppose, for that
Stu: community around. Yeah. Which is a blessing to have. Yeah.
Charlie: Like-minded and so they’ve never had to have those conversations of, you know, so, and so says that I can’t have two dads or any of that.
And it was one of the questions that people kept asking before we had kids. One of the things that when you’re that side of parenting and you don’t know, and you think, God, is this going to be awful or they’re going to get bullied? Is it going to be, you know, Actually our experience is not like that. I’m not saying it’s like that for everyone.
And I’m sure some kids will get bullied for having gay parents. But you know, when I was at school, some kids got bullied for being fat or ginger or wearing glasses or whatever it was. If kids are going to bully you, they’re going to pick it up fine.
Stu: They’re going to find a way. Yep. And he’s putting that.
I think we put that on ourselves and you’re right, because that is such a key question is what they’re going to say. And you do, and you know, that’s why we’re called some families as well, because that’s how you can describe it to kids. Some families have two dads, some families have two mommies. And actually when you say that to a kid, they’re like, Oh, okay.
Yeah. All right. Next thing, when argue.
Lotte: So we have a character on some families called aunt Sally, who is the. Dysfunctional rude, abrupt person that we all inevitably me at some point in our lives. You asks us just that one killer question that just is like a punch in the stomach. Do you have an art Sally moment?
And what did she ask you and how did it make you feel?
Charlie: I suppose the question that people often ask and they feel like they’re completely within their rights to ask was, did Katherine and I have sex in order to, to have our kids, which would have been. Inappropriate in so many ways, not least because I’m in a relationship with a man I’m not attracted to women.
Uh, and I’m sure she’s not attracted to me either. Um, yeah, we didn’t, we did IVF and I have no problem talking about that. Um, but yeah, it’s a weird one, I suppose. I don’t know why people think that when they know that you’ve had kids in a slightly different way to perhaps they have. They feel like they have the right to ask you all the ins and outs.
Stu: Sally just has no barriers.
Lotte: Do you tend to be quite patient with people like that or with you kind of like you
Charlie: say, well, tell people to mind their own business. Yeah, no, I don’t. I don’t do any of that. I don’t, I don’t really care. I just say no, we didn’t. Yeah, cause he’s easier. Um, you know, but that’s Hmm.
What
Stu: do you know now that you wish you had known at the time before you went into
Charlie: this job? I don’t know all the, all the worries that I had about whether or not going between the two houses was going to be difficult, how the kids would manage having three parents, all those. All those kind of unanswered questions, just simply as I said before, because I didn’t have, have any role models.
I didn’t have anybody that I knew that had done what we’d done. So I felt a little bit like we were stepping into the unknown, um, and it it’s all been fine. Really well, thank you
Lotte: so much for coming in. Lovely to have really interesting listening to Charlie and the way he was talking about parenting. I really, really agree with him that parenting is democratizing in terms of one’s sexuality.
And you’re not thinking about being gay when you’re changing, someone’s nappy, but I don’t know. Do you think that maybe there is some things. That are specific Lee challenging for gay people. What do you think go home? Do you think parenting is just. The same, whether you’re gay or straight, or do you think that there are some particular quirks and experiences that are very specific to being gay?
Please do let us know. You can contact us on at some families pod on Instagram or Twitter, or you can drop us an
Stu: email@somefamiliesatstoryhunter.co.uk.
Lotte: One of the other things I found really interesting about Charlie’s interview was. The fact that he spoke so much about it beforehand with his friend.
And I think that’s something that we all do and I’m sure straight people do it too, talking about becoming parents. But I just feel like from my experience with my wife, we really, I mean, God, we talked and we talked and we talked and from what you’ve said,
Stu: Well, it’s the pre-planning, isn’t it it’s, there’s so much more to it.
And. And that’s not to take away from that. Of course, and people go on all types of different journeys. But I think as queer parents, we do go into this with so much planning and so much thought and conversation. And I love speaking to Charlie about, and you could, you got that sense that actually their relationship and not just his relationship with cam, but his relationship with his friend, Catherine, about how that must’ve been.
The trust and the, and the strength they must have together to be able to do that is, is, is quite beautiful. Actually. I think they were very, it’s a, it’s a really wonderful unit. I find
Lotte: it really reassuring how he said, well, a lot of the stuff they spoke about actually, when it came to it, it’s just fine.
You know, like, I’d be worried about where’s this where’s, that who’s at house, but actually of course when you’re in it. Yeah.
Stu: And I love that. I love the whole, that they actually have that time off. For each other and for the children, very appealing. It’s very appealing. And I mean, I was actually going to make a proposal or T I mean, is it that we merged?
Lotte: I think I can. Now, if that works,
Stu: I’ll adopt your daughter, but then I ended up with four.
Lotte: Yeah. Anyway, so it’s been a great session today. It’s been lovely to have Charlie in and Stu again. Congratulations. I’m sure everybody listening will be just as thrilled.
Stu: Thanks, until next time. Bye.
Lotte: Goodbye!